In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
(set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
machine at fault (not me, of course.)

--
dorayme

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
<doraymeRidThis [at] optusnet.com.au> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
A9BDFE.13582730032008 [at] news-vip.optusnet.com.au:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had
to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just
my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>

I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.

I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share

In article
<doraymeRidThis-A9BDFE.13582730032008 [at] news-vip.optusnet.com.au>,
dorayme <doraymeRidThis [at] optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)

I gather NSW legislation only went through in late October. I can't see
any indication at Apple support of a Daylight Saving update for Leopard
(nor for Tiger or Panther past March 2007).

At least some mobile phones also didn't notice the problem, as reported
in the news this morning.

I am very glad I live in a state that does not use Daylight Saving. Less
complicated.

--
http://www.ericlindsay.com

dorayme <doraymeRidThis [at] optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)

Which version of Mac OS X are you running?

According to my 10.5.2 system, the current time zone in Sydney is
UTC+11, which agrees with your description of what the time should be.

If you are running 10.4.10 or earlier, and the rule changed from last
year, then your version of Mac OS X has out of date daylight saving
rules.

Apple released updated rules in 10.4.11 and 10.5.

We had a similar problem in New Zealand back in September, when the
rules changed here, and we have a problem right now for anyone still
running 10.4.10 or earlier, as the end of daylight saving moved ahead by
three weeks (to April 6th).

Since 10.4.11 and 10.5 weren't out in time for our local daylight saving
transition in September, a friend of mine wrote a patch for the daylight
saving rules for New Zealand to fix the problem for people running
10.3.9 and 10.4.9/10.

The whole story is here:

http://welmac.org.nz/nzdst2007.php

--
David Empson
dempson [at] actrix.gen.nz

On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell <arbpen [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
> hour
>> today.
>
> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>
> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell <arbpen [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
>> hour
>>> today.
>> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
>> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
>> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
>> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
>> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
>> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>>
>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
> has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
> the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>

I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me when
I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until almost
10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just adjust
the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
UnHallmark Card: I must admit, you brought Religion into my life. I
never believed in Hell until I met you.

Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
> <doraymeRidThis [at] optusnet.com.au> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
> A9BDFE.13582730032008 [at] news-vip.optusnet.com.au:
>
>> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
>> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
> hour
>> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
>> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had
> to
>> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just
> my
>> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>>
>
> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>
> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
Couldn't agree more. If you want to trade with an adjoining time zone,
get up an hour earlier [1]. You don't have to bother the cows and the
school children at all, let the rest of us stay in tune with the sun.
It's crazy that we're totally controlled by little mechanical devices
strapped to our wrists.

[1] I live in a half hour time zone, like Newfoundland!

--
Phil Kempster
http://kempster.info

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 30 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen <ed [at] edmullen.net> wrote:
>
>>> Which brings me to this request which I make in the most humble and
>>> respectful manner. Would you mind sending me a short test missive
>>> using the form in question? You need to include something in the
>>> "email address or handle" box, but it doesn't have to be any email
>>> address; "Edward" would be fine. I need to see if the thing works
>>> outside of my own domain.
>>>
>>> Thanks much.
>>>
>> Hmm. I tried right-clicking on your "From" field in SeaMonkey and
>> choosing "Compose mail to" option. I made a fabulous email and
>> clicked "Send." Got a lengthy error message (which I cannot begin to
>> relate) and canceled out of the whole process.
>
> Well thank you very much for trying it. Damn, that probably means the form
> only works within the same domain. Yahoo really sucks when it comes to
> form mail

The page you have made don't be invoked, as Ed is using a proper mail client
and those your web page will never be called. You idea of having a form page
as a "mail address" is as bad as microsofts idea of including html to mail.


> It's a url, a link;
> you have to double click-it to get to a form.

That won't work, a form address isn't a link (maybe you are using a crappy
mail client), even if it would work, there aren't any me [at] http protocol.

If you had thought about things more than a millisecond, you had added your
form address in the footer of your message.


> whatever it may or may not be, is prefectly safe from spamming.

If spammers want to spam you they can use their spambots to use your form to
send you load of spam.


> If you include an actual email
> address on the form (which isn't required though some kind of handle is).
> that email address is still safe because it's only submitted by the form
> for reference - never used for actual sending. That (I think) is why Yahoo
> does it that way.

They just protect themselves from mail header injection and they don't want to
write a code that protects against header injection.


--

//Aho

On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen <ed [at] edmullen.net> wrote:

>>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state
>> which has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it,
>> too. I think the point is that if they want to adjust work and
>> school start times, etc., go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>>
>
> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D

That's okay by me. My objection is to _changing_ the clock during the year
(twice!) not to what time you want the sun to rise or set.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Neredbojias <ex [at] example.com> wrote:

> On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell <arbpen [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> > to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> > isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> > are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> > beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> > clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
> >
> > I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
> has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
> the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.

Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
the starting time of everything you do makes any difference whatsoever?
It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.

I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
really makes me feel that summer is on its way.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen <ed [at] edmullen.net> wrote:

> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D

Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
without sticking the "me [at] " in front, but the link seems to work.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

On 30 Mar 2008, nomail [at] please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

>> > I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state
>> which has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it,
>> too. I think the point is that if they want to adjust work and
>> school start times, etc., go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>
> Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
> the starting time of everything you do makes any difference
> whatsoever?

Absolutely! I means not having to screw with the clock and clock-type
mechanisms such as computer time.

> It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.

Sure, either way. Whether a person likes that or not is varying but why
make people change their clocks - just to aggravate them more?

> I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
> really makes me feel that summer is on its way.

Move to Tortuga; it's summer there all the time.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

On 31 Mar 2008, "J.O. Aho" <user [at] example.net> wrote:

>>> Hmm. I tried right-clicking on your "From" field in SeaMonkey and
>>> choosing "Compose mail to" option. I made a fabulous email and
>>> clicked "Send." Got a lengthy error message (which I cannot begin
>>> to relate) and canceled out of the whole process.
>>
>> Well thank you very much for trying it. Damn, that probably means
>> the form only works within the same domain. Yahoo really sucks when
>> it comes to form mail
>
> The page you have made don't be invoked, as Ed is using a proper mail
> client and those your web page will never be called. You idea of
> having a form page as a "mail address" is as bad as microsofts idea of
> including html to mail.

Mmm, yes, I see what you're saying.

>> It's a url, a link;
>> you have to double click-it to get to a form.
>
> That won't work, a form address isn't a link (maybe you are using a
> crappy mail client), even if it would work, there aren't any me [at] http
> protocol.

X-News. The "me [at] " seems to be ignored.

> If you had thought about things more than a millisecond, you had added
> your form address in the footer of your message.

The idea is that it should be possible to have a form url as an
(ostensible) email address.

>> whatever it may or may not be, is prefectly safe from spamming.
>
> If spammers want to spam you they can use their spambots to use your
> form to send you load of spam.

Perhaps possible but unlikely. It's too inefficient for typical spam
mass-mailing.

>> If you include an actual email
>> address on the form (which isn't required though some kind of handle
>> is). that email address is still safe because it's only submitted by
>> the form for reference - never used for actual sending. That (I
>> think) is why Yahoo does it that way.
>
> They just protect themselves from mail header injection and they don't
> want to write a code that protects against header injection.

That I can believe.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Neredbojias <me [at] http://www.neredbojias.com/_eml/fliam.php> wrote:

> > Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
> > the starting time of everything you do makes any difference
> > whatsoever?
>
> Absolutely! I means not having to screw with the clock and clock-type
> mechanisms such as computer time.

My computer sets the change automatically.


> > It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.
>
> Sure, either way. Whether a person likes that or not is varying but why
> make people change their clocks - just to aggravate them more?

Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock, than to
change every time table and every schedule. I'm sure people would find
that much more impractical and would miss regular meetings, planes,
trains and busses before they finally got used to the new schadules. But
hey, I didn't invent DST, so don't ask me why it was done this way and
not another way.

> > I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
> > really makes me feel that summer is on its way.
>
> Move to Tortuga; it's summer there all the time.

I didn't say I want it to be summer all the time.



--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen <ed [at] edmullen.net> wrote:
>
>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>
> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
> without sticking the "me [at] " in front, but the link seems to work.

Could it be that it's not an e-mail address.


--

//Aho

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:
> Neredbojias <ex [at] example.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Mar 2008, Adrienne Boswell <arbpen [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
>>> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
>>> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
>>> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
>>> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
>>> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>>>
>>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state which
>> has no daylight savings time, but before I moved, I hated it, too. I think
>> the point is that if they want to adjust work and school start times, etc.,
>> go ahead, but leave the clock itself alone.
>
> Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but changing
> the starting time of everything you do makes any difference whatsoever?
> It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.
>
> I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
> really makes me feel that summer is on its way.

I hate the thought of change the clock twice a year, if people wants one
more hour of daylight in the evening, then just see to that the
state/country switches timezone one step to the right, for example most
of Europe would just change from CET to EET and the problem is solved
and no need to switch the clock, whats the point to change the time for
a couple of months when the standard time is used, DST is used the
majority of the year.


--

//Aho

On 31 Mar 2008, Vladimir <Vladimir [at] RedSquare.ru> wrote:

> In article <Xns9A70DEB3D4A3neredbojiasnano [at] 85.214.90.236>, Neredbojias
> <ex [at] example.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I, like Eric, live in a state
>> which has no daylight savings time
>
> Hmmm. Perhaps you _are_ Joh!

I dunno 'bout that but in my younger days my Moh Joh was risin'.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

In article <Xns9A70D0408CAA8arbpenyahoocom [at] 69.28.186.121>,
Adrienne Boswell <arbpen [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
> <doraymeRidThis [at] optusnet.com.au> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
> A9BDFE.13582730032008 [at] news-vip.optusnet.com.au:
>
> > In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> > week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an
> hour
> > today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> > (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had
> to
> > manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just
> my
> > machine at fault (not me, of course.)
> >
>
> I hate daylight saving time. It's a waste of time. The sun isn't going
> to do anything different just because we want it to, and Bessy the cow
> isn't going to give milk any sooner, just because Old McDonald's buyers
> are the the farm an hour earlier. Traffic accidents spike at the
> beginning of DST, because our internal clocks don't give a hoot what the
> clock says either - we're losing an hour of sleep.
>
> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

Until recently the state of Indiana (US) allowed counties to set their
own rule regarding DST. Comparing actual energy usage before and after
the state legislature forced everyone to DST and allowing for yearly
temperature variations, using neighboring counties as controls, showed
an increase in energy usage. See
<http://gizmodo.com/365527/daylight-saving-time-jump-may-actually-waste-e
nergy> for more details.

--
Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

dorayme wrote:
> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)
>
Why hasn't Jukka joined the thread, to scream that this belongs in
comp.systems.clocks? (Hmm, he didn't even complain that the Easter egg
thread belonged in rec.food.chocolate.)

J.O. Aho <user [at] example.net> wrote:

> I hate the thought of change the clock twice a year, if people wants one
> more hour of daylight in the evening, then just see to that the
> state/country switches timezone one step to the right, for example most
> of Europe would just change from CET to EET and the problem is solved
> and no need to switch the clock, whats the point to change the time for
> a couple of months when the standard time is used, DST is used the
> majority of the year.

DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening. It's
about having one more hour of daylight during the period that people are
active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the morning. That is why
it makes sense to change that by changing the clock (or your habits).

In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST (or
using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one more hour
of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving to work and
are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more important than
having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.

That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in summer,
because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without* stealing it
from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would have changed
time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different habits and work
from eight to four or from seven to three rather than from nine to five.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

In article <1iem555.1sefj0rj6ho9hN%nomail [at] please.invalid>,
nomail [at] please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

> Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock, than to
> change every time table and every schedule. I'm sure people would find
> that much more impractical and would miss regular meetings, planes,
> trains and busses before they finally got used to the new schadules. But
> hey, I didn't invent DST, so don't ask me why it was done this way and
> not another way.

Years ago, the Canadian railways refused to change their schedules to
accommodate DST, so if you were taking the train you had to figure it
all out an hour earlier (and this was in the days when their were two
railways and you actually _could_ take a train to most places in
Canada). It caused all sorts of problems; you'd walk into a railway
station and time seemed to move backwards. Nowadays they (the railways)
change with the Americans like everyone else except in that little town
in Saskatchewan where the mayor still pokes a stick into a cow patty at
noon every day to measure the angle of the sun.
--
W. Oates

In article <13uue50sovdbeef [at] corp.supernews.com>,
Phil Kempster <phil [at] kempster.info> wrote:

> Couldn't agree more. If you want to trade with an adjoining time zone,
> get up an hour earlier [1]. You don't have to bother the cows and the
> school children at all, let the rest of us stay in tune with the sun.
> It's crazy that we're totally controlled by little mechanical devices
> strapped to our wrists.
>
> [1] I live in a half hour time zone, like Newfoundland!

Venezuela?
--
W. Oates

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:19:11 +0200, Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

> J.O. Aho <user [at] example.net> wrote:
>
>> I hate the thought of change the clock twice a year, if people wants
>> one more hour of daylight in the evening, then just see to that the
>> state/country switches timezone one step to the right, for example most
>> of Europe would just change from CET to EET and the problem is solved
>> and no need to switch the clock, whats the point to change the time for
>> a couple of months when the standard time is used, DST is used the
>> majority of the year.
>
> DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening. It's
> about having one more hour of daylight during the period that people are
> active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the morning. That is why
> it makes sense to change that by changing the clock (or your habits).
>
> In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST (or
> using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one more hour
> of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving to work and
> are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more important than
> having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.
>
> That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in summer,
> because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without* stealing it
> from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would have changed
> time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different habits and work
> from eight to four or from seven to three rather than from nine to five.

This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx. 24
hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.

--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

In article
<doraymeRidThis-A9BDFE.13582730032008 [at] news-vip.optusnet.com.au>,
dorayme <doraymeRidThis [at] optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> In NSW Australia, daylight saving does not finish until 6th April (a
> week later than usual). I noticed my computer clock was put back an hour
> today. It is supposed to be done automatically on a per region basis
> (set in sys pref on a Mac). Something or someone has stuffed up. Had to
> manually put it forward again. It is possible, I suppose, it is just my
> machine at fault (not me, of course.)

I am running 10.3.9. In the "Date and Time" preference pane there is an
option to set the time automatically for America, Europe and Asia and
then to choose your "time zone" within those broad areas.

The US changed the date of DST for this year and mine went thru
automatically with only this setting in the Preferences.

If it is not working for you, try trashing the preference file and
re-setting for your zone.

--
With or without religion, you would have good people doing
good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good
people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

Baho Utot wrote:
> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have
> approx. 24 hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to
> count it.

You have completely missed the point. It is not about having more daylight.
It is about having more daylight hours when people can take advantage of
them. Having more daylight time before they wake up or before they go to
work is no help to the vast majority of people. Having more daylight time
AFTER work is extremely helpful.

Yes, in theory everyone could go to work an hour earlier and return an hour
earlier without changing the clocks, but the reality is that this will never
be viable for anyone that is not self-employed and/or makes use of services
provided by other people who also work on a schedule.

As for just moving the clock and leaving it that way that is not done (at
least in the US) because people do not want their children going to school
in the morning while it is still dark. As others have stated the extra hour
of light in the evening loses its advantage once it moves within the time
people are working (those that work indoors anyway) so to leave it in DST
all year would give us six months of the disadvantages without any of the
advantages.

Frankly people who feel this is disruptive have pretty small things to
complain about. Moving the dates on which the clocks are to be changed was
a PITA for a lot of electronic/computerized systems, but the actual time
change is no big deal at all.

In article <pan.2008.03.30.12.46.16 [at] invalid.org>,
Baho Utot <baho-utot [at] invalid.org> wrote:

> All days have approx. 24
> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.

Can you cite a reference for that?
--
W. Oates

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:43:06 +0000, Rick Brandt wrote:

> Baho Utot wrote:
>> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
>> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
>> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx.
>> 24 hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>
> You have completely missed the point. It is not about having more
> daylight. It is about having more daylight hours when people can take
> advantage of them. Having more daylight time before they wake up or
> before they go to work is no help to the vast majority of people.
> Having more daylight time AFTER work is extremely helpful.
>
> Yes, in theory everyone could go to work an hour earlier and return an
> hour earlier without changing the clocks, but the reality is that this
> will never be viable for anyone that is not self-employed and/or makes
> use of services provided by other people who also work on a schedule.
>
> As for just moving the clock and leaving it that way that is not done
> (at least in the US) because people do not want their children going to
> school in the morning while it is still dark. As others have stated the
> extra hour of light in the evening loses its advantage once it moves
> within the time people are working (those that work indoors anyway) so
> to leave it in DST all year would give us six months of the
> disadvantages without any of the advantages.
>
> Frankly people who feel this is disruptive have pretty small things to
> complain about. Moving the dates on which the clocks are to be changed
> was a PITA for a lot of electronic/computerized systems, but the actual
> time change is no big deal at all.

Only if your life revolves around going to work.


--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:34:20 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:

> In article <pan.2008.03.30.12.46.16 [at] invalid.org>,
> Baho Utot <baho-utot [at] invalid.org> wrote:
>
>> All days have approx. 24
>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>
> Can you cite a reference for that?

Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)



--
Tayo'y Mga Pinoy

Baho Utot <baho-utot [at] invalid.org> wrote:

> > DST is not about having one more hour of daylight in the evening. It's
> > about having one more hour of daylight during the period that people are
> > active. In summer, you waste daylight hours in the morning. That is why
> > it makes sense to change that by changing the clock (or your habits).
> >
> > In winter, it's still dark when you get up in the morning. Using DST (or
> > using another time zone permanently) in winter would mean one more hour
> > of darkness in the morning. That is when people are drving to work and
> > are at work, so having daylight in the morning is more important than
> > having an extra hour of daylight in the evening.
> >
> > That is why DST is only used part of the year. DST only works in summer,
> > because it gives you an extra hour in the evening *without* stealing it
> > from the morning. If it worked all year round, we would have changed
> > time zone ages ago. Or easier, we would have different habits and work
> > from eight to four or from seven to three rather than from nine to five.
>
> This thread is amazing as the folks that _think_ they can get an extra
> hour of sunlite. The Earth revolves at a somewhat fixed pace so the
> reality of this is you don't get an extra hour. All days have approx. 24
> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.

What part of "It's about having one more hour of daylight during the
period that people are active" didn't you understand?


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

Indeed -- I've been saying that for years.

In fact, my vote is that we scrap timezones altogether and everyone goes
by UTC all the time. I'm not suggesting that children in New Zealand ought
to be going to school at night time, and eating their lunches by the light
of the moon -- they'd keep their normal routines, it would just be the
notation used for times that would change.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 4 days, 4:38.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Phil Kempster wrote:

> I live in a half hour time zone, like Newfoundland!

A lot of people forget that half hour time zones exist. In fact a good
proportion of the world's population live in them. (Hint: India is in
UTC+05:30.) 15/45-minute timezones exist too, though they're mostly used
by tiny island nations.

Before WWI, Liberia was at GMT-00:43:08, and until WWII, the Netherlands
were at GMT+00:19:32. But the last of those weird time zones was phased
out in the 1980s, so all time zones are now rounded off to 15 minutes.

Thanks to the weirdly shaped international date line, many small islands
are more than twelve hours ahead of or behind UTC -- parts of Kiribati are
at UTC+14:00, which just *has* to be some kind of publicity stunt! ("We're
so far ahead of the rest of the world here.")

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 4 days, 4:42.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.

I propose a campaign to eliminate the scourge of DST by 2016 (the 100th
anniversary of the first usage of DST).

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
[Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux]
[OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 4 days, 5:01.]

Cognition 0.1 Alpha 6
http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/03/29/cognition-alpha6/

Neredbojias wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen <ed [at] edmullen.net> wrote:
>
>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>
> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
> without sticking the "me [at] " in front, but the link seems to work.
>

I'm assuming that goes to your form mail handler? Neat!

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?

On 30 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen <ed [at] edmullen.net> wrote:

> Neredbojias wrote:
>> On 29 Mar 2008, Ed Mullen <ed [at] edmullen.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>>
>> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
>> without sticking the "me [at] " in front, but the link seems to work.
>>
>
> I'm assuming that goes to your form mail handler? Neat!

We-ell, I goes to my form but Yahoo's form-handler. Kind of a long story
here, but basically it boils down to the "idiosyncrasy" that you can't use
normal form mail with Yahoo hosting unless the "from" address is one of
your own. I know it's hard to believe in this day and age, but so is
reality tv.

Which brings me to this request which I make in the most humble and
respectful manner. Would you mind sending me a short test missive using
the form in question? You need to include something in the "email address
or handle" box, but it doesn't have to be any email address; "Edward" would
be fine. I need to see if the thing works outside of my own domain.

Thanks much.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

On 30 Mar 2008, "J.O. Aho" <user [at] example.net> wrote:

>>> I kinda like it staying light later. It was especially fun for me
>>> when I spent 2 1/2 weeks in Ireland in June and it stayed light until
>>> almost 10 PM. Same thing on an Alaska cruise. I think we should just
>>> adjust the clock ahead an hour for 12 months of the year! :-D
>>
>> Btw, check out my new email address. I couldn't get it to "go through"
>> without sticking the "me [at] " in front, but the link seems to work.
>
> Could it be that it's not an e-mail address.

Hmmmm, that might be a possibility... <g>

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

On 30 Mar 2008, nomail [at] please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

> Neredbojias <me [at] http://www.neredbojias.com/_eml/fliam.php> wrote:
>
>> > Funny. Do you really think that leaving the clock alone, but
>> > changing the starting time of everything you do makes any
>> > difference whatsoever?
>>
>> Absolutely! I means not having to screw with the clock and
>> clock-type mechanisms such as computer time.
>
> My computer sets the change automatically.

But it needs to know what time zone it's in, doesn't it? And that
involves human intervention.

>> > It still means you have to get up one hour earlier.
>>
>> Sure, either way. Whether a person likes that or not is varying but
>> why make people change their clocks - just to aggravate them more?
>
> Probably because it's a lot easier to only change the clock

I beg to differ. All that clock-changing is one royal PITA. It would
be _much_ simpler to have something like a "time-offset" twice per year
wherein everything occurs an hour earlier in spring and later in fall as
a matter of course.

> , than to
> change every time table and every schedule. I'm sure people would find
> that much more impractical and would miss regular meetings, planes,
> trains and busses before they finally got used to the new schadules.
> But hey, I didn't invent DST, so don't ask me why it was done this way
> and not another way.

I think it originally was a political ploy, -just a new way to curry
favor with the ignorant masses by convincing them they want what you
convince them they want.

>> > I like DST. We have one more hour of daylight in the evening, so it
>> > really makes me feel that summer is on its way.
>>
>> Move to Tortuga; it's summer there all the time.
>
> I didn't say I want it to be summer all the time.

True, but that would be all right by me. I hate cold weather. Man was
not put upon this earth to emulate the penguin.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

On 30 Mar 2008, Baho Utot <baho-utot [at] invalid.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:34:20 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>
>> In article <pan.2008.03.30.12.46.16 [at] invalid.org>,
>> Baho Utot <baho-utot [at] invalid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> All days have approx. 24
>>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>>
>> Can you cite a reference for that?
>
> Sure just Google for As The World Turns :)

The world doesn't turn. It is stationary; the rest of the universe just
revolves around it.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

On 30 Mar 2008, Toby A Inkster <usenet200803 [at] tobyinkster.co.uk> wrote:

> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>
>> I say it's time to get rid of DST altogether.
>
> I propose a campaign to eliminate the scourge of DST by 2016 (the 100th
> anniversary of the first usage of DST).

A nice sentiment which I'd fully support, but I think they're still working
on the heartbreak of psoriasis.

--
Neredbojias
http://www.neredbojias.com/
Great sights and sounds

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Warren Oates
<warren.oates [at] gmail.com> writing in news:0245b37d$0$8869$c3e8da3
[at] news.astraweb.com:

> In article <pan.2008.03.30.12.46.16 [at] invalid.org>,
> Baho Utot <baho-utot [at] invalid.org> wrote:
>
>> All days have approx. 24
>> hours and that is all you get no matter how you want to count it.
>
> Can you cite a reference for that?

http://cseligman.com/text/sky/rotationvsday.htm

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
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