The scrollbar and Firefox.
Hi !
How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
to do the same.
I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>
Thanks,
Vincent.
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
<vincent.marguerit [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce-
f2ec71388616 [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> Hi !
>
> How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
> not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
> With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
> to do the same.
> I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
> Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>
>
> Thanks,
> Vincent.
>
That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
none? Please don't mess with the UA.
--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
> <vincent.marguerit [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce-
> f2ec71388616 [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Hi !
>>
>> How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
>> not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
>> With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
>> to do the same.
>> I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
>> Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vincent.
>>
>
> That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
> user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
> none? Please don't mess with the UA.
>
>
Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE? But
is possible if you feel so compelled.
body { overflow: scroll; }
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 13:10:36 -0500, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
>> <vincent.marguerit [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce-
>> f2ec71388616 [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> [snip scrollbars all the time in Firefox]
>>
>> That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
>> user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
>> none? Please don't mess with the UA.
>
> Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE?
It ensures that the content area of the page doesn't change width depending
on the height of the content. This can be a undesired effect in a situation
where a visitor is moving between several pages in quick succession (for
example, when filling in a form split across multiple pages). I've only
once worked on a site where the effect has been annoying enough for me to
apply the overflow:scroll rule, but I don't regard the original poster's
comment as an illegitimate complaint.
--
Safalra (Stephen Morley)
Common Web Browser Window Sizes:
http://www.safalra.com/web-design/usability/common-browser-w indow-sizes/
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 13:10:36 -0500, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>
>> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
>>> <vincent.marguerit [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce-
>>> f2ec71388616 [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>> [snip scrollbars all the time in Firefox]
>>>
>>> That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
>>> user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
>>> none? Please don't mess with the UA.
>> Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE?
>
>
> It ensures that the content area of the page doesn't change width depending
> on the height of the content. This can be a undesired effect in a situation
> where a visitor is moving between several pages in quick succession (for
> example, when filling in a form split across multiple pages). I've only
> once worked on a site where the effect has been annoying enough for me to
> apply the overflow:scroll rule, but I don't regard the original poster's
> comment as an illegitimate complaint.
>
Ah, but Microsoft has decreed that only thy vertical scrollbar shall be
ever present. It is okay for the horizontal one to pop in and out as
needed and intrude on vertical viewport space! I just find that funny.
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Well bust mah britches and call me cheeky, on Sat, 01 Dec 2007 19:23:33
GMT Jonathan N. Little scribed:
>>> Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE?
>>
>>
>> It ensures that the content area of the page doesn't change width
>> depending on the height of the content. This can be a undesired
>> effect in a situation where a visitor is moving between several pages
>> in quick succession (for example, when filling in a form split across
>> multiple pages).
And one has a consistent and, say, centered background on multiple pages.
>> I've only once worked on a site where the effect has
>> been annoying enough for me to apply the overflow:scroll rule, but I
>> don't regard the original poster's comment as an illegitimate
>> complaint.
>>
>
> Ah, but Microsoft has decreed that only thy vertical scrollbar shall
> be ever present. It is okay for the horizontal one to pop in and out
> as needed and intrude on vertical viewport space! I just find that
> funny.
Microsoft _is_ funny (-in a peculiar way.)
Not valid, but overflow-y:scroll; works last time I checked.
--
Bone Ur
Cavemen have formidable pheromones.
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 14:23:33 -0500, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 13:10:36 -0500, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>>>> [snip scrollbars all the time in Firefox]
>>>>
>>> Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE?
>>
>> It ensures that the content area of the page doesn't change width depending
>> on the height of the content. This can be a undesired effect in a situation
>> where a visitor is moving between several pages in quick succession (for
>> example, when filling in a form split across multiple pages). I've only
>> once worked on a site where the effect has been annoying enough for me to
>> apply the overflow:scroll rule, but I don't regard the original poster's
>> comment as an illegitimate complaint.
>>
>
> Ah, but Microsoft has decreed that only thy vertical scrollbar shall be
> ever present. It is okay for the horizontal one to pop in and out as
> needed and intrude on vertical viewport space! I just find that funny.
The appearance and disappearance of the vertical scrollbar can make
horizontally centred content jump around (I should have mentioned in my
previous post the other situation in which the effect is undesirable -
pages whose height may change dynamically). Vertical centring is very rare
so the horizontal scrollbar isn't so much of a problem.
--
Safalra (Stephen Morley)
Common Web Browser Window Sizes:
http://www.safalra.com/web-design/usability/common-browser-w indow-sizes/
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
> The appearance and disappearance of the vertical scrollbar can make
> horizontally centred content jump around (I should have mentioned in my
> previous post the other situation in which the effect is undesirable -
> pages whose height may change dynamically). Vertical centring is very rare
> so the horizontal scrollbar isn't so much of a problem.
Maybe the real problem is that too many web "designers" feel compelled
to use fixed-width containers centered in the viewport, eh?
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:29:25 -0500, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
>
>> The appearance and disappearance of the vertical scrollbar can make
>> horizontally centred content jump around (I should have mentioned in my
>> previous post the other situation in which the effect is undesirable -
>> pages whose height may change dynamically). Vertical centring is very rare
>> so the horizontal scrollbar isn't so much of a problem.
>
> Maybe the real problem is that too many web "designers" feel compelled
> to use fixed-width containers centered in the viewport, eh?
The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
--
Safalra (Stephen Morley)
Common Web Browser Window Sizes:
http://www.safalra.com/web-design/usability/common-browser-w indow-sizes/
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
On 1 d=E9c, 19:10, "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4... [at] centralva.net> wrote:
> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> > Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
> > <vincent.margue... [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce-
> > f2ec71388... [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> Hi !
>
> >> How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
> >> not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
> >> With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
> >> to do the same.
> >> I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
> >> Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Vincent.
>
> > That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
> > user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
> > none? Please don't mess with the UA.
>
> Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE? But
> is possible if you feel so compelled.
>
> body { overflow: scroll; }
>
> --
> Take care,
>
> Jonathan
> -------------------
> LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Yes it works fine with Firefox but now I have troubles with IE 6 which
display some scrollbars inside the page,
You can have a look here:
http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/
Does anyone know why IE 6 display some scrollbars inside the page when
I had "overflow: scroll;" to the style of the body ?
Thanks,
Vincent.
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
>
> The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
> will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
And that's a problem because...?
Rewrapping to fit the available space is how a fluid design *should*
work, is it not?
--
Berg
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Defacta wrote:
> On 1 déc, 19:10, "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4... [at] centralva.net> wrote:
>> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
>>> <vincent.margue... [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce-
>>> f2ec71388... [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>>> Hi !
>>>> How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
>>>> not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
>>>> With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
>>>> to do the same.
>>>> I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
>>>> Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Vincent.
>>> That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
>>> user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
>>> none? Please don't mess with the UA.
>> Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE? But
>> is possible if you feel so compelled.
>>
>> body { overflow: scroll; }
>>
>> --
>> Take care,
>>
>> Jonathan
>> -------------------
>> LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
>
> Yes it works fine with Firefox but now I have troubles with IE 6 which
> display some scrollbars inside the page,
> You can have a look here:
> http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/
>
> Does anyone know why IE 6 display some scrollbars inside the page when
> I had "overflow: scroll;" to the style of the body ?
Well you do have a mish-mosh of XHTML and HTML, in valid markup.
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fbox fly.free.fr%2Ftest%2Ftest_scroll%2F
[Invalid] Markup Validation of http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/ -
W3C Markup Validator
So as browsers try to "digest" all this they can come to different
conclusions. First start with valid markup, fix the errors, then see if
you get cross browsers consistency.
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:29:25 -0500, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>> Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
>>
>>> The appearance and disappearance of the vertical scrollbar can make
>>> horizontally centred content jump around (I should have mentioned in my
>>> previous post the other situation in which the effect is undesirable -
>>> pages whose height may change dynamically). Vertical centring is very rare
>>> so the horizontal scrollbar isn't so much of a problem.
>> Maybe the real problem is that too many web "designers" feel compelled
>> to use fixed-width containers centered in the viewport, eh?
>
>
> The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
> will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
So. With a fluid design and number of elements may reflow when you
change the viewport. Who cares? Unless you like reading pages while
winging the viewport dimensions back and forth.
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Defacta wrote:
>> On 1 déc, 19:10, "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4... [at] centralva.net> wrote:
>>> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
>>>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
>>>> <vincent.margue... [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce-
>>>> f2ec71388... [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>>>> Hi !
>>>>> How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
>>>>> not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
>>>>> With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firefox
>>>>> to do the same.
>>>>> I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.
>>>>> Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Vincent.
>>>> That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the
>>>> user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
>>>> none? Please don't mess with the UA.
>>> Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE? But
>>> is possible if you feel so compelled.
>>>
>>> body { overflow: scroll; }
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>> -------------------
>>> LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
>>
>> Yes it works fine with Firefox but now I have troubles with IE 6 which
>> display some scrollbars inside the page,
>> You can have a look here:
>> http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/
>>
>> Does anyone know why IE 6 display some scrollbars inside the page when
>> I had "overflow: scroll;" to the style of the body ?
>
> Well you do have a mish-mosh of XHTML and HTML, in valid markup.
>
> http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fbox fly.free.fr%2Ftest%2Ftest_scroll%2F
>
> [Invalid] Markup Validation of http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/ -
> W3C Markup Validator
>
>
> So as browsers try to "digest" all this they can come to different
> conclusions. First start with valid markup, fix the errors, then see if
> you get cross browsers consistency.
This valid enough for ya?
http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/
For anyone unable to test in IE6:
http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/ie.gif
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:31:00 -0600, Bergamot wrote:
> Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
>>
>> The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
>> will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
>
> And that's a problem because...?
>
> Rewrapping to fit the available space is how a fluid design *should*
> work, is it not?
Permit me to try to exaplin again: Pages that are dynamically updated
(through AJAX, for example) may change height *while the visitor is viewing
them*. If this causes a vertical scrollbar to appear or disappear then
content may jump (in fixed-width designs) or rewrap (in fluid designs).
Both effects are undesirable as the result is that parts of the page
content that haven't been changed jump around.
--
Safalra (Stephen Morley)
Common Web Browser Window Sizes:
http://www.safalra.com/web-design/usability/common-browser-w indow-sizes/
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
On 2 d=E9c, 10:58, Mark <u... [at] example.net> wrote:
> Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> > Defacta wrote:
> >> On 1 d=E9c, 19:10, "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4... [at] centralva.net> wrote:
> >>> Adrienne Boswell wrote:
> >>>> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Defacta
> >>>> <vincent.margue... [at] gmail.com> writing in news:e150f302-18a8-46ce-8bce=
-
> >>>> f2ec71388... [at] a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> >>>>> Hi !
> >>>>> How can make the scrollbar be displayed on Firefox even if there is
> >>>>> not enough content to justify a scrollbar.
> >>>>> With IE, the scrollbar is displayed at all times, I would like Firef=
ox
> >>>>> to do the same.
> >>>>> I am not talking about a frame or an iframe but about the main page.=
> >>>>> Maybe there is an option to specify in the tag <body>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Vincent.
> >>>> That could be confusing for a visitor. If there is a scroll bar, the=
> >>>> user might want to try to scroll for more content - and if there is
> >>>> none? Please don't mess with the UA.
> >>> Agree. Why would you want to replicate this stupid behavior of IE? But=
> >>> is possible if you feel so compelled.
>
> >>> body { overflow: scroll; }
>
> >>> --
> >>> Take care,
>
> >>> Jonathan
> >>> -------------------
> >>> LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
>
> >> Yes it works fine with Firefox but now I have troubles with IE 6 which
> >> display some scrollbars inside the page,
> >> You can have a look here:
> >>http://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/
>
> >> Does anyone know why IE 6 display some scrollbars inside the page when
> >> I had "overflow: scroll;" to the style of the body ?
>
> > Well you do have a mish-mosh of XHTML and HTML, in valid markup.
>
> >http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=3D1&uri=3Dhttp%3A%2F% 2Fboxfly.free.=
....
>
> > [Invalid] Markup Validation ofhttp://boxfly.free.fr/test/test_scroll/-
> > W3C Markup Validator
>
> > So as browsers try to "digest" all this they can come to different
> > conclusions. First start with valid markup, fix the errors, then see if
> > you get cross browsers consistency.
>
> This valid enough for ya?
>
> http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/
>
> For anyone unable to test in IE6:
>
> http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/ie.gif
I have put it in the html tag:
<html style=3D\"overflow:scroll\" ...>
And now it works fine with Firefox and with IE6
:)
Vincent.
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:31:00 -0600, Bergamot wrote:
>> Safalra (Stephen Morley) wrote:
>>> The problem isn't limited to fixed-width designs. In fluid designs the text
>>> will likely wrap differently if the content area becomes narrower or wider.
>> And that's a problem because...?
>>
>> Rewrapping to fit the available space is how a fluid design *should*
>> work, is it not?
>
>
> Permit me to try to exaplin again: Pages that are dynamically updated
> (through AJAX, for example) may change height *while the visitor is viewing
> them*. If this causes a vertical scrollbar to appear or disappear then
> content may jump (in fixed-width designs) or rewrap (in fluid designs).
> Both effects are undesirable as the result is that parts of the page
> content that haven't been changed jump around.
>
Well then you have to take that into consideration when you design the
page. There are many ways to address the situation, many times the best
solution is approaching the design form a different direction to result
in a similar end. However with such hypothetical question there is not
specific hypothetical answer.
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Mark wrote:
> This valid enough for ya?
>
> http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/
>
> For anyone unable to test in IE6:
>
> http://www.lester1.eclipse.co.uk/test/ie.gif
Then:
html { overflow: scroll; }
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Re: The scrollbar and Firefox.
Defacta wrote:
Don't use inline styles
> I have put it in the html tag:
> <html style=\"overflow:scroll\" ...>
^ ^
And I don't know why you are escaping quotes with "\"
>
> And now it works fine with Firefox and with IE6
Just put a style element in your document head:
<head>
<style type="text/css">
html { overflow: scroll; }
</style>
....
or better yet, link to a separate stylesheet file in the head
<head>
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="mystyle.css">
...
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
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