So with the new indexing ability of my new Backwater site a question
keeps coming up in my mind...is there a better way? The primary
problem is that it requires constantly reloading data that doesn't
really need to be reloaded.

On the Backwater site for example when you click on a nav button it's
essentially performing a meta-refresh on the page but then adding on
the appropriate GET variable to the URL.

This is a bit annoying in that it winds up having to reload about 800K
of data, which, even from the browser cache takes 3 to 5 seconds.
Now, it is true that in that respect it winds up functioning like your
average HTML/CSS/javascript based site...but part of wanting to use
Flash (aside from the compatibility) is the increased speed in NOT
having to needlessly reload anything from the cache.

So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
the page? So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
a bit more...evolved.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

"Onideus Mad Hatter" <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote in message
news:i89st29d72i8pnb8kqi2tsphs9gcji6kv0 [at] 4ax.com...
| So with the new indexing ability of my new Backwater site a question
| keeps coming up in my mind...is there a better way?

yes, there is. anyway other than the way you do it. you inevitably get it
wrong...pick your context.

| On the Backwater site for example when you click on a nav button it's
| essentially performing a meta-refresh on the page but then adding on
| the appropriate GET variable to the URL.
|
| This is a bit annoying in that it winds up having to reload about 800K
| of data, which, even from the browser cache takes 3 to 5 seconds.
| Now, it is true that in that respect it winds up functioning like your
| average HTML/CSS/javascript based site...but part of wanting to use
| Flash (aside from the compatibility) is the increased speed in NOT
| having to needlessly reload anything from the cache.

this is web programming 101, dumbass. as for 'compatibility', you don't seem
to conceive that not all browsers support flash...much less javascript or
css. further, you never heed anyone's professional advice that you should be
accounting for this. but hell, you site is for you...no one else gives a
flying fuck.

| So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
| goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
| some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
| the page?

oh, i'd say mind-reading would be good...that, or load all your data in your
crap-app...errr...i mean, flash-app and then the universe is in the client
world. if you've ever heard of *security*, you'd know that altering a url
cannot be a function that is reliably done client-side...even for a good
hacker. further, that altering a url does shit for you unless you access
what is on the other side of it. finally, you sure put a lot of faith in
people enabling javascript...because surely you don't plan on manipulating
it on the server-side.

it is painfully obvious that you failed to architect any of these factors
into your site...as you'd have approached it in a more efficient manner.

| So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
| include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
| able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
| a bit more...evolved.

i suppose one is limited to their own level of evolution in thought
capacity. hence, you are stuck with these problems.

Steve, don't feed the troll...
--
Rik Wasmus

"Rik" <luiheidsgoeroe [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:op.tn6pjcm4qnv3q9 [at] misant...
| Steve, don't feed the troll...
| --

lol. he's been gone/silent for a while. it is fun to poke the troll from
time to time...like a well placed stick in a bed of ants. it's all the
flurry and action i supposed. i just hover over the busyness and watch the
action. ;^)

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:22:20 -0600, "Steve" <no.one [at] example.com>
wrote:

>| So with the new indexing ability of my new Backwater site a question
>| keeps coming up in my mind...is there a better way?

>yes, there is. anyway other than the way you do it. you inevitably get it
>wrong...pick your context.

Oh boy, I think I've got another Hatter Addict in the making here...or
are you already a Hatter Addict? It's getting hard to keep track,
what with how many of them I have these days.

>| On the Backwater site for example when you click on a nav button it's
>| essentially performing a meta-refresh on the page but then adding on
>| the appropriate GET variable to the URL.
>|
>| This is a bit annoying in that it winds up having to reload about 800K
>| of data, which, even from the browser cache takes 3 to 5 seconds.
>| Now, it is true that in that respect it winds up functioning like your
>| average HTML/CSS/javascript based site...but part of wanting to use
>| Flash (aside from the compatibility) is the increased speed in NOT
>| having to needlessly reload anything from the cache.

>this is web programming 101, dumbass.

Well, no, actually it isn't. What I'm asking for is something that
would essentially go against the very nature of the way it's supposed
to operate and there might not even BE a way of doing it...and if
there is it'd likely fall under "web malware 101" as it would
certainly help that kind out.

>as for 'compatibility', you don't seem
>to conceive that not all browsers support flash...

The only browser that doesn't support Flash is Lynx...which is what
blind people use...and coincidentally it's only in use by like .00001%
of the total net.populous...not that it really matters since the site
has a plain text fall back version in the event that for some idiot
reason the dumbfuck has got Flash disables or in the event that
they're a blind user...or an Amish of the Internet user (a person who
isn't blind who uses Lynx).

>much less javascript or
>css.

....tell me, what the fuck decade are you trapped in, Sunshine? Yeesh,
talk about the technologically stunted. Where the fuck has your
stupid has been for the past 7 years?

>further, you never heed anyone's professional advice that you should be
>accounting for this. but hell, you site is for you...no one else gives a
>flying fuck.

Well the quarter MILLION people going to my site on a monthly basis
seem to disagree with your ASSumptions, you stupid jackass. Speaking
of which, for some reason I'm real popular in Puerto Rico lately, my
Alexia ratings show me at 15,280...which is like...woah... I figured
they musta mentioned one of my sites on one of their television
stations or something. I'm really worried that one of these days
something like that is gonna happen in the US. One lil blurb about my
sites on say Tech TV would be enough to hammer my server with enough
traffic to knock it out of face of existence. If worse comes to worse
I might wind up having to use adsense banners, especially if the
current growth trend on Backwater continues.

>| So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
>| goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
>| some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
>| the page?

>oh, i'd say mind-reading would be good...that, or load all your data in your
>crap-app...errr...i mean, flash-app and then the universe is in the client
>world.

....yup, I was right about you, a Hatter Addict. Free cl00, Kiddo,
this ain't Star Trek and everyone can tell when you're babbling
nonsense.

>if you've ever heard of *security*, you'd know that altering a url
>cannot be a function that is reliably done client-side...even for a good
>hacker.

....why the fuck would a hacker want to alter bookmark URLs you
dribbling dumbfuck? Do you even know what hacking is? Don't answer
that, it's rhetorical.

>further, that altering a url does shit for you unless you access
>what is on the other side of it.

....uh, hello, fucking retard, what part of GET VARIABLES did you not
comprehend the first time I said it? It can alter the url and go to
the appropriate section, it doesn't need to ACTUALLY go to the URL
since it's technically ALREADY FUCKING THERE...yeesh...where the fuck
did this n00b come from?

>finally, you sure put a lot of faith in
>people enabling javascript...because surely you don't plan on manipulating
>it on the server-side.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Jan 2006 - 10% of users have javascript disabled
Jul 2006 - 8% of users have javascript disabled
Jan 2007 - 6% of users have javascript disabled

Noticing a trend here, Retard? Eventually even the technologically
retarded get forced to catch up with the rest of us. And again, the
site has a plain text fall back version regardless, so your whining is
very much a moot point.

>it is painfully obvious that you failed to architect any of these factors
>into your site...

It is painfully obvious that you're Jesus molesting retarded for not
having noticed that the site has a plain text fall back version built
ESPECIALLY for retards like yourself. ^_^

>| So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
>| include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
>| able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
>| a bit more...evolved.

>i suppose one is limited to their own level of evolution in thought
>capacity. hence, you are stuck with these problems.

Hey uh, Retard...I couldn't help but notice that you weren't actually
able to offer...well, ANYTHING in the way of viable solution to the
problem I've presented...well unless you count retarding back HTML
2.0, but since the site already has a fall back version the needs of
your kind has already been met and, well, quite frankly this topic
really doesn't have anything to do with you at all, Dribbles.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

"Onideus Mad Hatter" <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote in message
news:0gvst2plait3sg84r83m66u44e71v81sm5 [at] 4ax.com...
| On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:22:20 -0600, "Steve" <no.one [at] example.com>
| wrote:
|
| >| So with the new indexing ability of my new Backwater site a question
| >| keeps coming up in my mind...is there a better way?
|
| >yes, there is. anyway other than the way you do it. you inevitably get it
| >wrong...pick your context.
|
| Oh boy, I think I've got another Hatter Addict in the making here...or
| are you already a Hatter Addict? It's getting hard to keep track,
| what with how many of them I have these days.
|
| >| On the Backwater site for example when you click on a nav button it's
| >| essentially performing a meta-refresh on the page but then adding on
| >| the appropriate GET variable to the URL.
| >|
| >| This is a bit annoying in that it winds up having to reload about 800K
| >| of data, which, even from the browser cache takes 3 to 5 seconds.
| >| Now, it is true that in that respect it winds up functioning like your
| >| average HTML/CSS/javascript based site...but part of wanting to use
| >| Flash (aside from the compatibility) is the increased speed in NOT
| >| having to needlessly reload anything from the cache.
|
| >this is web programming 101, dumbass.
|
| Well, no, actually it isn't. What I'm asking for is something that
| would essentially go against the very nature of the way it's supposed
| to operate and there might not even BE a way of doing it...and if
| there is it'd likely fall under "web malware 101" as it would
| certainly help that kind out.

i see that when you have difficulties, you blame the technology as the
shortcoming. that's a trend more closely resembling projection. 'technology'
and 'other' people get blamed a lot on your behalf.

| >as for 'compatibility', you don't seem
| >to conceive that not all browsers support flash...
|
| The only browser that doesn't support Flash is Lynx...which is what
| blind people use...and coincidentally it's only in use by like .00001%
| of the total net.populous...not that it really matters since the site
| has a plain text fall back version in the event that for some idiot
| reason the dumbfuck has got Flash disables or in the event that
| they're a blind user...or an Amish of the Internet user (a person who
| isn't blind who uses Lynx).

again, and for someone who wants to be 'in-touch' with technology, you've
just left out 64-bit os users. so, to use your site, one has to be a
sheeple...or they get no service. you are a walking contradiction, a
hypocracy.

| >much less javascript or
| >css.
|
| ...tell me, what the fuck decade are you trapped in, Sunshine? Yeesh,
| talk about the technologically stunted. Where the fuck has your
| stupid has been for the past 7 years?

wow! is english a second or third language for you? you are using 'stupid'
(adjective) as a subject (noun) and have it enclosed between to 'has'. 'how
long has your head has been up your ass?'

| >further, you never heed anyone's professional advice that you should be
| >accounting for this. but hell, you site is for you...no one else gives a
| >flying fuck.
|
| Well the quarter MILLION people going to my site on a monthly basis
| seem to disagree with your ASSumptions, you stupid jackass. Speaking
| of which, for some reason I'm real popular in Puerto Rico lately, my
| Alexia ratings show me at 15,280...which is like...woah... I figured
| they musta mentioned one of my sites on one of their television
| stations or something. I'm really worried that one of these days
| something like that is gonna happen in the US. One lil blurb about my
| sites on say Tech TV would be enough to hammer my server with enough
| traffic to knock it out of face of existence. If worse comes to worse
| I might wind up having to use adsense banners, especially if the
| current growth trend on Backwater continues.

i suppose 249K of them have been you accessing it during debug...which i'm
sure you do directly on your production server. ;^)


| >| So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
| >| goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
| >| some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
| >| the page?
|
| >oh, i'd say mind-reading would be good...that, or load all your data in
your
| >crap-app...errr...i mean, flash-app and then the universe is in the
client
| >world.
|
| ...yup, I was right about you, a Hatter Addict. Free cl00, Kiddo,
| this ain't Star Trek and everyone can tell when you're babbling
| nonsense.

you can't comprehend english either. i don't care what you do to a url, the
server cannot, without mind-reading, know what you want without accessing
the server with that url. your choices then become, loading all the server
data onto the client for it to trudge through, or getting the appropriate
data from the server using the url. sorry your lack of reading skills force
you to not see sarcasm. you always seem to 'out' your failings in such
'c100'13ss responses. i suppose that's why i provoke you...it's amusing from
time to time.

| >if you've ever heard of *security*, you'd know that altering a url
| >cannot be a function that is reliably done client-side...even for a good
| >hacker.
|
| ...why the fuck would a hacker want to alter bookmark URLs you
| dribbling dumbfuck? Do you even know what hacking is? Don't answer
| that, it's rhetorical.

hmmm...why the fuck would *all* browsers suddenly (starting about 5 years
ago) pay close attention to limiting the ability to alter urls and bookmarks
in general? for one instance, oh unimaginative one, redirection. how about
multi-domain hacks (even with ssl on the parent). i could go on, but i'm
sure you don't have a clue as to what i mean or what the implications are.
run along and play now.

| >further, that altering a url does shit for you unless you access
| >what is on the other side of it.
|
| ...uh, hello, fucking retard, what part of GET VARIABLES did you not
| comprehend the first time I said it? It can alter the url and go to
| the appropriate section, it doesn't need to ACTUALLY go to the URL
| since it's technically ALREADY FUCKING THERE...yeesh...where the fuck
| did this n00b come from?

and the most dangerous hacking script in the world is completely harmless
until it is executed. hullo, change it as you will, it is meaningless until
you do something with it. 'technically' isn't 'reality' now is it. 'there'
is in your fucking client. if the data is not also 'there', then you have to
go somewhere else with your get variables. listen, now would be the time to
remove your head from your ass.

| >finally, you sure put a lot of faith in
| >people enabling javascript...because surely you don't plan on
manipulating
| >it on the server-side.
|
| http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
|
| Jan 2006 - 10% of users have javascript disabled
| Jul 2006 - 8% of users have javascript disabled
| Jan 2007 - 6% of users have javascript disabled
|
| Noticing a trend here, Retard? Eventually even the technologically
| retarded get forced to catch up with the rest of us. And again, the
| site has a plain text fall back version regardless, so your whining is
| very much a moot point.
|
| >it is painfully obvious that you failed to architect any of these factors
| >into your site...
|
| It is painfully obvious that you're Jesus molesting retarded for not
| having noticed that the site has a plain text fall back version built
| ESPECIALLY for retards like yourself. ^_^

lol. this is the amusement part. what a cad.

| >| So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
| >| include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
| >| able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
| >| a bit more...evolved.
|
| >i suppose one is limited to their own level of evolution in thought
| >capacity. hence, you are stuck with these problems.
|
| Hey uh, Retard...I couldn't help but notice that you weren't actually
| able to offer...well, ANYTHING in the way of viable solution to the
| problem I've presented...well unless you count retarding back HTML
| 2.0, but since the site already has a fall back version the needs of
| your kind has already been met and, well, quite frankly this topic
| really doesn't have anything to do with you at all, Dribbles.

well, since i don't ever intend to offer you help, you should just quit
posting your shit to alt.php - as i'm the only one here from whom you will
ever get a response. further, your posts are not questions...they are
bitching sessions about how you can't do something-or-other. for your
readers, it is NO big surprise to continually see that you can't do
something. we just wish you'd either admit that it's not the technology or
other people at fault...that, or just stfu. but both desires are wishful
thinking on our part(s).

On 2007-02-22, Onideus Mad Hatter <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote:
> So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
> goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
> some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
> the page? So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
> include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
> able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
> a bit more...evolved.

As far as I know the only url part that can be changed without reloading the
page is the "hash" part. normally the server doesn't see this part of the
url.

possibly you can alter the getValue method of the location object??

what do you hope to gain by messing with the URL anyway?


Bye.
Jasen

On 23 Feb 2007 22:58:05 GMT, jasen <jasen [at] free.net.nz> wrote:

>On 2007-02-22, Onideus Mad Hatter <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>> So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
>> goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
>> some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
>> the page? So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
>> include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
>> able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
>> a bit more...evolved.

>As far as I know the only url part that can be changed without reloading the
>page is the "hash" part. normally the server doesn't see this part of the
>url.
>
>possibly you can alter the getValue method of the location object??
>
>what do you hope to gain by messing with the URL anyway?

Not having to reload the primary Flash file from the cache while still
allowing for an indexable site via the use of GET variables. As it
currently stands whenever you click a link on the nav it has to reload
the entire primary flash file from the browser cache just to add on a
get variable to the URL for use in bookmarking or indexing a specific
section. Since the primary Flash file is around 800K it still takes
about 3 seconds to reload, even from the cache. If it was my blog
site it probably wouldn't really matter, since its primary Flash file
is only 98K and can reload from the cache in just a split second. But
I'm in search of the most "perfect" form, in which case even a split
second is too long to wait.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

| I'm in search of the most "perfect" form, in which case even a split
| second is too long to wait.

you're really demanding. we've waited an eternity for you to develop a brain
and use it. we are still patiently waiting.

btw, the only 'perfect' way for you to improve your code is to stop coding
outright...the sooner the better.

"Steve" <no.one [at] example.com> wrote in message
news:qEODh.64$Q24.22 [at] newsfe04.lga...
>| I'm in search of the most "perfect" form, in which case even a split
> | second is too long to wait.
>
> you're really demanding. we've waited an eternity for you to develop a
> brain
> and use it. we are still patiently waiting.
>
> btw, the only 'perfect' way for you to improve your code is to stop coding
> outright...the sooner the better.
>
>

HahahHhahahaha Hatter owned again

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:50:21 -0600, "Steve" <no.one [at] example.com>
wrote:

>| Well, no, actually it isn't. What I'm asking for is something that
>| would essentially go against the very nature of the way it's supposed
>| to operate and there might not even BE a way of doing it...and if
>| there is it'd likely fall under "web malware 101" as it would
>| certainly help that kind out.

>i see that when you have difficulties, you blame the technology as the
>shortcoming. that's a trend more closely resembling projection. 'technology'
>and 'other' people get blamed a lot on your behalf.

There's no blame, you retard, the technology can only do what it can
do, no amount of wishing or bullshit pulled out of yer ass is gonna
change it. Also, it's interesting that YOU refer to it as a
shortcoming, where as *I* presented it as a SECURITY FEATURE...yer
kinda...slow, so I can see as how you might have missed that. ^_^

>| >as for 'compatibility', you don't seem
>| >to conceive that not all browsers support flash...
>|
>| The only browser that doesn't support Flash is Lynx...which is what
>| blind people use...and coincidentally it's only in use by like .00001%
>| of the total net.populous...not that it really matters since the site
>| has a plain text fall back version in the event that for some idiot
>| reason the dumbfuck has got Flash disables or in the event that
>| they're a blind user...or an Amish of the Internet user (a person who
>| isn't blind who uses Lynx).

>again, and for someone who wants to be 'in-touch' with technology, you've
>just left out 64-bit os users. so, to use your site, one has to be a
>sheeple...or they get no service. you are a walking contradiction, a
>hypocracy.

Uh, hello, retard, the OS has NOTHING to do with it, it's the BROWSER.
Now either you tell me SPECIFICALLY what browser it is that you think
won't work with Flash, or YOU LOOK STUPID. Pick one.

....and no, BETA VERSIONS do NOT count, you fuckin retard.

Speaking of which, if your retarded ass wasn't so technologically
deficient you would realize your BETA VERSION is out of date:
http://justin.everett-church.com/index.php/2007/02/21/flash- player-and-windows-vista/

>| ...tell me, what the fuck decade are you trapped in, Sunshine? Yeesh,
>| talk about the technologically stunted. Where the fuck has your
>| stupid has been for the past 7 years?

>wow! is english a second or third language for you?

This from the retard who apparently hasn't figured out what the shift
key does.

>| Well the quarter MILLION people going to my site on a monthly basis
>| seem to disagree with your ASSumptions, you stupid jackass. Speaking
>| of which, for some reason I'm real popular in Puerto Rico lately, my
>| Alexia ratings show me at 15,280...which is like...woah... I figured
>| they musta mentioned one of my sites on one of their television
>| stations or something. I'm really worried that one of these days
>| something like that is gonna happen in the US. One lil blurb about my
>| sites on say Tech TV would be enough to hammer my server with enough
>| traffic to knock it out of face of existence. If worse comes to worse
>| I might wind up having to use adsense banners, especially if the
>| current growth trend on Backwater continues.

>i suppose 249K of them have been you accessing it during debug...which i'm
>sure you do directly on your production server. ;^)

Sorry, Retard, but all testing and such is done OFFLINE, locally
(although I do sometimes put up beta versions for other people to look
at and mess with before the release version is put out).

>| ...yup, I was right about you, a Hatter Addict. Free cl00, Kiddo,
>| this ain't Star Trek and everyone can tell when you're babbling
>| nonsense.

>you can't comprehend english either.

Free cl00, Retard, English, it's CAPITALIZED...woah...English is teh
HARD, innt?

>i don't care what you do to a url, the
>server cannot, without mind-reading, know what you want without accessing
>the server with that url. your choices then become, loading all the server
>data onto the client for it to trudge through, or getting the appropriate
>data from the server using the url.

Well maybe if it was plain HTML/CSS/javascript you would have a point,
but I'm talking about a FLASH FILE, which is like a browser in and of
itself and certainly DOES NOT require direct alterations to the URL in
order to load child SWF files within itself. The Flash file is setup
to check the URL for any get variables and to act on them if there
are, but it most certainly IS NOT dependant upon it for ITS OWN
NAVIGATION.

Again, all this is OBVIOUSLY way the fuck outta yer league, which is
why you're having such a hard time comprehending it.

>| ...why the fuck would a hacker want to alter bookmark URLs you
>| dribbling dumbfuck? Do you even know what hacking is? Don't answer
>| that, it's rhetorical.

>hmmm...why the fuck would *all* browsers suddenly (starting about 5 years
>ago) pay close attention to limiting the ability to alter urls and bookmarks
>in general? for one instance, oh unimaginative one, redirection. how about
>multi-domain hacks (even with ssl on the parent). i could go on, but i'm
>sure you don't have a clue as to what i mean or what the implications are.
>run along and play now.

Redirection, multi-domain hacks, etc all have NOTHING to do with
creating bookmarks you fucking retard. MALWARE is prone to alter, or
rather ADD bookmarks, but that's about it...and that's not done
through the browser, ya fuckin idiot.

>| ...uh, hello, fucking retard, what part of GET VARIABLES did you not
>| comprehend the first time I said it? It can alter the url and go to
>| the appropriate section, it doesn't need to ACTUALLY go to the URL
>| since it's technically ALREADY FUCKING THERE...yeesh...where the fuck
>| did this n00b come from?

>and the most dangerous hacking script in the world is completely harmless
>until it is executed. hullo, change it as you will, it is meaningless until
>you do something with it. 'technically' isn't 'reality' now is it. 'there'
>is in your fucking client. if the data is not also 'there', then you have to
>go somewhere else with your get variables. listen, now would be the time to
>remove your head from your ass.

....and now the retard is babbling on incoherently. You really don't
comprehend how Flash files work, now do you?

>| http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
>|
>| Jan 2006 - 10% of users have javascript disabled
>| Jul 2006 - 8% of users have javascript disabled
>| Jan 2007 - 6% of users have javascript disabled
>|
>| Noticing a trend here, Retard? Eventually even the technologically
>| retarded get forced to catch up with the rest of us. And again, the
>| site has a plain text fall back version regardless, so your whining is
>| very much a moot point.

No counter argument, huh?

>| >it is painfully obvious that you failed to architect any of these factors
>| >into your site...

>| It is painfully obvious that you're Jesus molesting retarded for not
>| having noticed that the site has a plain text fall back version built
>| ESPECIALLY for retards like yourself. ^_^

>lol. this is the amusement part. what a cad.

You looking like a retard and not having a counter argument to defend
your stupidity is pretty amusing, innt?

>| Hey uh, Retard...I couldn't help but notice that you weren't actually
>| able to offer...well, ANYTHING in the way of viable solution to the
>| problem I've presented...well unless you count retarding back HTML
>| 2.0, but since the site already has a fall back version the needs of
>| your kind has already been met and, well, quite frankly this topic
>| really doesn't have anything to do with you at all, Dribbles.

>well, since i don't ever intend to offer you help,

You confuse "don't intend" with "don't have the ability".

>you should just quit posting your shit to alt.php

But then what would you have to whine and snit about in a jealously
fueled rage?

>- as i'm the only one here from whom you will ever get a response.

Oh did all the regs elect you as head spokes retard or something?

>further, your posts are not questions...they are
>bitching sessions about how you can't do something-or-other.

They don't become bitching sessions until you start posting. Don't
confuse YOUR actions with mine, my little projectionist.

>for your readers, it is NO big surprise to continually see that you can't do
>something. we just wish you'd either admit that it's not the technology or
>other people at fault

So you're claiming that it is possible you just uh...er...that is...uh
oh...backpedal...look out!

Here's a thought...if you DON'T know the answer to a question I
ask...why don't you try simply shutting yourself the fuck up? I mean,
wouldn't that be easier, much less of a hassle than you having to be
verbally beaten across a half dozen different Usenet froups or so.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:03:10 -0600, "MindBrain"
<someone [at] microsoft.com> wrote:

>
>"Steve" <no.one [at] example.com> wrote in message
>news:qEODh.64$Q24.22 [at] newsfe04.lga...
>>| I'm in search of the most "perfect" form, in which case even a split
>> | second is too long to wait.
>>
>> you're really demanding. we've waited an eternity for you to develop a
>> brain
>> and use it. we are still patiently waiting.
>>
>> btw, the only 'perfect' way for you to improve your code is to stop coding
>> outright...the sooner the better.
>>
>>
>
>HahahHhahahaha Hatter owned again

Oh look, it's Mindless, obsessing over me again. Free cl00 Mindless,
Stevie boi isn't the best mule to bet on. Granted compared to you
he's practically fuckin Einstein, but compared to me he's dumber than
a box of rocks, so you best find a better ass to slurp, Kiddo.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:52:54 -0600, "Steve" <no.one [at] example.com>
wrote:

>| I'm in search of the most "perfect" form, in which case even a split
>| second is too long to wait.
>
>y<COCK SLAP>

Sorry, the grownups are talking. Put it down, you're done, it's time
for beddy bye.

*Hatter takes little Stevie by the hand, leads him to his nursery,
changes his wet diaper and put the little snit to bed.*

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

"Onideus Mad Hatter" <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote in message
news:qhdvt2phoinhdbv4brqfqb60g4hueiflmf [at] 4ax.com...
| On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:50:21 -0600, "Steve" <no.one [at] example.com>
| wrote:
|
| >| Well, no, actually it isn't. What I'm asking for is something that
| >| would essentially go against the very nature of the way it's supposed
| >| to operate and there might not even BE a way of doing it...and if
| >| there is it'd likely fall under "web malware 101" as it would
| >| certainly help that kind out.
|
| >i see that when you have difficulties, you blame the technology as the
| >shortcoming. that's a trend more closely resembling projection.
'technology'
| >and 'other' people get blamed a lot on your behalf.
|
| There's no blame, you retard, the technology can only do what it can
| do, no amount of wishing or bullshit pulled out of yer ass is gonna
| change it. Also, it's interesting that YOU refer to it as a
| shortcoming, where as *I* presented it as a SECURITY FEATURE...yer
| kinda...slow, so I can see as how you might have missed that. ^_^

lol. i brought up security and how you can't count on being able to
client-side manipulate a bookmark url. member that, dumbass. and the
statement to 'shortcomings' is not just in the context of this thread. all
your posts bitch about shortcomings of everyone and everthing...but
yourself...when it is you causing all your problems to begin with...in case
you missed that.


| Uh, hello, retard, the OS has NOTHING to do with it, it's the BROWSER.
| Now either you tell me SPECIFICALLY what browser it is that you think
| won't work with Flash, or YOU LOOK STUPID. Pick one.


since flash doesn't fully support 64 bit systems yet...uhhh...64 bit
systems. dumbmass. and btw, flash doesn't install in a browser, in case you
didn't know. it is the operating system that flash installs on. there's no
choice with you...you just made YOURSELF look stupid.

plus, not everyone enjoys flash on their systems. so, *any* browser on that
system would fail to support flash.

gawd damn, you're a tard.


| >wow! is english a second or third language for you?
|
| This from the retard who apparently hasn't figured out what the shift
| key does.

'tell me when you have removed have your ass have from have your have ass'.


| >i suppose 249K of them have been you accessing it during debug...which
i'm
| >sure you do directly on your production server. ;^)
|
| Sorry, Retard, but all testing and such is done OFFLINE, locally
| (although I do sometimes put up beta versions for other people to look
| at and mess with before the release version is put out).

yet still to production code...thought so. amature.

| >| ...yup, I was right about you, a Hatter Addict. Free cl00, Kiddo,
| >| this ain't Star Trek and everyone can tell when you're babbling
| >| nonsense.
|
| >you can't comprehend english either.
|
| Free cl00, Retard, English, it's CAPITALIZED...woah...English is teh
| HARD, innt?

c100, teh, HARD, innt ... you are funny and hypocritical at the same time.

| >i don't care what you do to a url, the
| >server cannot, without mind-reading, know what you want without accessing
| >the server with that url. your choices then become, loading all the
server
| >data onto the client for it to trudge through, or getting the appropriate
| >data from the server using the url.
|
| Well maybe if it was plain HTML/CSS/javascript you would have a point,
| but I'm talking about a FLASH FILE, which is like a browser in and of
| itself and certainly DOES NOT require direct alterations to the URL in
| order to load child SWF files within itself. The Flash file is setup
| to check the URL for any get variables and to act on them if there
| are, but it most certainly IS NOT dependant upon it for ITS OWN
| NAVIGATION.

retard. are you saying you load flash with the world or that, yes, afterall,
i do have to go back to the server to get data for flash? as far as
html/css/javascript and flash, you can client-side navigate all day long. i
don't see why you think flash is superior in some aspect because it can do
the same. hell, throw ajax in the mix and there's no outstanding difference
between flash and std. html server requests. duh.

| Again, all this is OBVIOUSLY way the fuck outta yer league, which is
| why you're having such a hard time comprehending it.

if the league you're in is stupidity, yes, i'm out of that one.

| >| ...why the fuck would a hacker want to alter bookmark URLs you
| >| dribbling dumbfuck? Do you even know what hacking is? Don't answer
| >| that, it's rhetorical.
|
| >hmmm...why the fuck would *all* browsers suddenly (starting about 5 years
| >ago) pay close attention to limiting the ability to alter urls and
bookmarks
| >in general? for one instance, oh unimaginative one, redirection. how
about
| >multi-domain hacks (even with ssl on the parent). i could go on, but i'm
| >sure you don't have a clue as to what i mean or what the implications
are.
| >run along and play now.
|
| Redirection, multi-domain hacks, etc all have NOTHING to do with
| creating bookmarks you fucking retard. MALWARE is prone to alter, or
| rather ADD bookmarks, but that's about it...and that's not done
| through the browser, ya fuckin idiot.

sure they can...you are one completely unimaginative fuck. think about it
more...when it hits, get back to me. zzzzzzzzzzzz.

| >| ...uh, hello, fucking retard, what part of GET VARIABLES did you not
| >| comprehend the first time I said it? It can alter the url and go to
| >| the appropriate section, it doesn't need to ACTUALLY go to the URL
| >| since it's technically ALREADY FUCKING THERE...yeesh...where the fuck
| >| did this n00b come from?
|
| >and the most dangerous hacking script in the world is completely harmless
| >until it is executed. hullo, change it as you will, it is meaningless
until
| >you do something with it. 'technically' isn't 'reality' now is it.
'there'
| >is in your fucking client. if the data is not also 'there', then you have
to
| >go somewhere else with your get variables. listen, now would be the time
to
| >remove your head from your ass.
|
| ...and now the retard is babbling on incoherently. You really don't
| comprehend how Flash files work, now do you?

sure do. it's just too bad you don't...enough that you can solve your own
problems instead of creating them.


| >| http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
| >|
| >| Jan 2006 - 10% of users have javascript disabled
| >| Jul 2006 - 8% of users have javascript disabled
| >| Jan 2007 - 6% of users have javascript disabled
| >|
| >| Noticing a trend here, Retard? Eventually even the technologically
| >| retarded get forced to catch up with the rest of us. And again, the
| >| site has a plain text fall back version regardless, so your whining is
| >| very much a moot point.
|
| No counter argument, huh?

none needed. you obviously think you are changing the world by forcing flash
on people. try and make money with your site. suddenly 8% (nice that you
include the 1.5 months of 2k7, lol) becomes important to you. but you go
ahead, develop your site...no one is noticing.


| >| >it is painfully obvious that you failed to architect any of these
factors
| >| >into your site...
|
| >| It is painfully obvious that you're Jesus molesting retarded for not
| >| having noticed that the site has a plain text fall back version built
| >| ESPECIALLY for retards like yourself. ^_^
|
| >lol. this is the amusement part. what a cad.
|
| You looking like a retard and not having a counter argument to defend
| your stupidity is pretty amusing, innt?

a counter argument to the counter 'insult here, more here, blah, blah,
blah'? yes, your counter to my point to my point does make it seem as if you
can't defend yourself. as for the one i offered to the 'blah, blah, jesus
molesting, blah, blah', i think i gave your comments adequate weight in
reply.

| >| Hey uh, Retard...I couldn't help but notice that you weren't actually
| >| able to offer...well, ANYTHING in the way of viable solution to the
| >| problem I've presented...well unless you count retarding back HTML
| >| 2.0, but since the site already has a fall back version the needs of
| >| your kind has already been met and, well, quite frankly this topic
| >| really doesn't have anything to do with you at all, Dribbles.
|
| >well, since i don't ever intend to offer you help,
|
| You confuse "don't intend" with "don't have the ability".

i won't. however let's not forget who didn't have a fucking clue about bits
and bytes and whom it was that schooled you. btw, have you figured that out
yet or is your mind still frying over how the basics of a computer work?

| >you should just quit posting your shit to alt.php
|
| But then what would you have to whine and snit about in a jealously
| fueled rage?

jealous of what? what rage? who's whining? i'd just prefer that you fuck
off. you assume all else outside of that plain point in fact. now, sod
off...or post a php question already.

| >- as i'm the only one here from whom you will ever get a response.
|
| Oh did all the regs elect you as head spokes retard or something?

no, they've all pulled me aside so far and said not to feed the troll. i
said i would after i have a bit of fun with it. those here who can help you
won't. we all think your an errogant, incompetent prick. sorry, that's just
the material you give us. we calls'em likes we seize um.

| >further, your posts are not questions...they are
| >bitching sessions about how you can't do something-or-other.
|
| They don't become bitching sessions until you start posting. Don't
| confuse YOUR actions with mine, my little projectionist.

christ, you mimic a lot. i accuse you of something, you turn around in your
next post and accuse me of the same thing...or claim what i just said is
something that you said. as it is, this is you offering a shitty counter to
a valid point. so far the only point of yours everyone can see is your
stupidity...so congrats...we all side with you on that point.

| >for your readers, it is NO big surprise to continually see that you can't
do
| >something. we just wish you'd either admit that it's not the technology
or
| >other people at fault
|
| So you're claiming that it is possible you just uh...er...that is...uh
| oh...backpedal...look out!

backpedal? and this would be backpedalling from a position i've always held?
and that being, you blame your mental incapabilities on everthing but your
mental incapabilities. you wanna explain that a bit more?

| Here's a thought...if you DON'T know the answer to a question I
| ask...why don't you try simply shutting yourself the fuck up? I mean,
| wouldn't that be easier, much less of a hassle than you having to be
| verbally beaten across a half dozen different Usenet froups or so.

here's a thought, i do know the answer but have no desire to help even
though i am fully capable of doing so. here's another, any wonder that no
one else in alt.php responds to your posts? answer: for the same reason.

first, i'd have to be verbally beaten. second, i participate in three ng's
and only one of those has be infested by you...which is why i hassle you for
being here. make you a deal, post php questions to alt.php when you have
them. otherwise, keep the flash shit diatribes in amf. either way, i think
you lean heavily on the 'or so' side of that unsupported lame comment.

btw, how's the infintilism going? oh and, nice picture...you really seem to
draw the best opinions out of people when it concerns what they think of
you.

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Onideus_Mad_H atter

l8r doof-ass

On 2007-02-24, Onideus Mad Hatter <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2007 22:58:05 GMT, jasen <jasen [at] free.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>On 2007-02-22, Onideus Mad Hatter <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>>> So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
>>> goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
>>> some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
>>> the page? So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
>>> include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
>>> able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
>>> a bit more...evolved.
>
>>As far as I know the only url part that can be changed without reloading the
>>page is the "hash" part. normally the server doesn't see this part of the
>>url.
>>
>>possibly you can alter the getValue method of the location object??
>>
>>what do you hope to gain by messing with the URL anyway?
>
> Not having to reload the primary Flash file from the cache while still
> allowing for an indexable site via the use of GET variables. As it
> currently stands whenever you click a link on the nav it has to reload
> the entire primary flash file from the browser cache just to add on a
> get variable to the URL for use in bookmarking or indexing a specific
> section. Since the primary Flash file is around 800K it still takes
> about 3 seconds to reload, even from the cache. If it was my blog
> site it probably wouldn't really matter, since its primary Flash file
> is only 98K and can reload from the cache in just a split second. But
> I'm in search of the most "perfect" form, in which case even a split
> second is too long to wait.

use frames, leave the main URL alone, have a frame with a "bookmark this"
link that's reloaded and an index page that has links to all other pages so
search engines can get to the content.


Bye.
Jasen

On 24 Feb 2007 09:08:38 GMT, jasen <jasen [at] free.net.nz> wrote:

>On 2007-02-24, Onideus Mad Hatter <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>> On 23 Feb 2007 22:58:05 GMT, jasen <jasen [at] free.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2007-02-22, Onideus Mad Hatter <usenet [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote:
>>>> So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
>>>> goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
>>>> some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
>>>> the page? So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
>>>> include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
>>>> able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
>>>> a bit more...evolved.
>>
>>>As far as I know the only url part that can be changed without reloading the
>>>page is the "hash" part. normally the server doesn't see this part of the
>>>url.
>>>
>>>possibly you can alter the getValue method of the location object??
>>>
>>>what do you hope to gain by messing with the URL anyway?
>>
>> Not having to reload the primary Flash file from the cache while still
>> allowing for an indexable site via the use of GET variables. As it
>> currently stands whenever you click a link on the nav it has to reload
>> the entire primary flash file from the browser cache just to add on a
>> get variable to the URL for use in bookmarking or indexing a specific
>> section. Since the primary Flash file is around 800K it still takes
>> about 3 seconds to reload, even from the cache. If it was my blog
>> site it probably wouldn't really matter, since its primary Flash file
>> is only 98K and can reload from the cache in just a split second. But
>> I'm in search of the most "perfect" form, in which case even a split
>> second is too long to wait.
>
>use frames, leave the main URL alone, have a frame with a "bookmark this"
>link that's reloaded and an index page that has links to all other pages so
>search engines can get to the content.

I thought about that, but I don't think it'll work. Whenever you have
a site that has frames there's always a kind of parent frame that all
the sub frames are loaded into. The problem is that when you bookmark
a site it'll go for the parent frame, not the sub frames. Unless
there's some way to change the focus via javascript onto one of the
sub frames which ~might~ make it bookmark that particular frame.

*searches*

This might work:
http://irt.org/script/1211.htm

....but even then it's not automatic in which case I could just go with
my original idea to have a bookmark button.

I might just wind up doing that anyway. Since I almost always use
that "portal" design for my sites I figure I might as well start
making use of all that blank space, I could start including some
custom tools and such. On the plus side if I ever wind up having to
get ad banners at least I'll have a convenient place to put em. ^_^

I'm becoming a little concerned with the traffic on my site, it seems
every time I create a new site my traffic jumps from 500 to 1,000
percent over the span of 3 to 6 months and then levels off...and
that's trying my damndest to make sure my sites WON'T show up right at
the top in search engines and with no marketing.

At some point I'm fully expecting some magazine or something will wind
up mentioning one of my sites and then that'll be it. I guess I
should talk to my host and ask them how they deal with situations like
that and what sort of costs I could be looking at.

My biggest concern right now is my sprite generator:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/RMXP_CSG/

It's even being picked up on foreign gaming boards:
http://www.thaigaming.com/rpg-maker-community/thread-11012.h tml

Probably also the reason why my Alexia ratings are shooting through
the roof. I'm at 15,743 in Puerto Rico right now...guess they musta
mentioned one of my sites on one of their television stations to cause
that kind of jump. If that ever happened in a major country like
India, the US, China, etc...yeah I'm thinkin the traffic spike would
kill the server right quick.

I don't know if anyone in any of these froups has any experience with
dealing with massive web traffic spikes or not, but I figured I'd
throw it out there and see if anyone can offer some knowledge and
tips, not just for me, but anyone else who might be a similar
position. It's a topic I personally have never seen covered.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On Feb 22, 11:27 pm, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> So with the new indexing ability of my new Backwater site a question
> keeps coming up in my mind...is there a better way? The primary
> problem is that it requires constantly reloading data that doesn't
> really need to be reloaded.
>
> On the Backwater site for example when you click on a nav button it's
> essentially performing a meta-refresh on the page but then adding on
> the appropriate GET variable to the URL.
>
> This is a bit annoying in that it winds up having to reload about 800K
> of data, which, even from the browser cache takes 3 to 5 seconds.
> Now, it is true that in that respect it winds up functioning like your
> average HTML/CSS/javascript based site...but part of wanting to use
> Flash (aside from the compatibility) is the increased speed in NOT
> having to needlessly reload anything from the cache.
>
> So the question is...is there some way to make it so that when someone
> goes to bookmark the page it'll alter the bookmarking URL or is there
> some way of dynamically altering the URL while NOT actually reloading
> the page? So far the only viable solution I've come up with is to
> include my own little bookmarking button that when clicked would be
> able to set a dynamic bookmark...but I was kinda hoping for something
> a bit more...evolved.

I did tell you this who parameter passing way of indexing was a bad
idea :) Now you're starting to see some of the reasons why! You could
do all of this with NO reloading if you wanted. Get away from passing
querystring params, it's just a headache IME :*(

On Feb 24, 5:25 am, "Steve" <no.... [at] example.com> wrote:
> "Onideus Mad Hatter" <use... [at] backwater-productions.net> wrote in messagenews:qhdvt2phoinhdbv4brqfqb60g4hueiflmf [at] 4ax.com...
> | On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:50:21 -0600, "Steve" <no.... [at] example.com>| wrote:
>
> |
> | >| Well, no, actually it isn't. What I'm asking for is something that
> | >| would essentially go against the very nature of the way it's supposed
> | >| to operate and there might not even BE a way of doing it...and if
> | >| there is it'd likely fall under "web malware 101" as it would
> | >| certainly help that kind out.
> |
> | >i see that when you have difficulties, you blame the technology as the
> | >shortcoming. that's a trend more closely resembling projection.
> 'technology'
> | >and 'other' people get blamed a lot on your behalf.
> |
> | There's no blame, you retard, the technology can only do what it can
> | do, no amount of wishing or bullshit pulled out of yer ass is gonna
> | change it. Also, it's interesting that YOU refer to it as a
> | shortcoming, where as *I* presented it as a SECURITY FEATURE...yer
> | kinda...slow, so I can see as how you might have missed that. ^_^
>
> lol. i brought up security and how you can't count on being able to
> client-side manipulate a bookmark url. member that, dumbass. and the
> statement to 'shortcomings' is not just in the context of this thread. all
> your posts bitch about shortcomings of everyone and everthing...but
> yourself...when it is you causing all your problems to begin with...in case
> you missed that.
>
> | Uh, hello, retard, the OS has NOTHING to do with it, it's the BROWSER.
> | Now either you tell me SPECIFICALLY what browser it is that you think
> | won't work with Flash, or YOU LOOK STUPID. Pick one.
>
> since flash doesn't fully support 64 bit systems yet...uhhh...64 bit
> systems. dumbmass. and btw, flash doesn't install in a browser, in case you
> didn't know. it is the operating system that flash installs on. there's no
> choice with you...you just made YOURSELF look stupid.
>
> plus, not everyone enjoys flash on their systems. so, *any* browser on that
> system would fail to support flash.
>
> gawd damn, you're a tard.
>
> | >wow! is english a second or third language for you?
> |
> | This from the retard who apparently hasn't figured out what the shift
> | key does.
>
> 'tell me when you have removed have your ass have from have your have ass'.
>
> | >i suppose 249K of them have been you accessing it during debug...which
> i'm
> | >sure you do directly on your production server. ;^)
> |
> | Sorry, Retard, but all testing and such is done OFFLINE, locally
> | (although I do sometimes put up beta versions for other people to look
> | at and mess with before the release version is put out).
>
> yet still to production code...thought so. amature.
>
> | >| ...yup, I was right about you, a Hatter Addict. Free cl00, Kiddo,
> | >| this ain't Star Trek and everyone can tell when you're babbling
> | >| nonsense.
> |
> | >you can't comprehend english either.
> |
> | Free cl00, Retard, English, it's CAPITALIZED...woah...English is teh
> | HARD, innt?
>
> c100, teh, HARD, innt ... you are funny and hypocritical at the same time.
>
> | >i don't care what you do to a url, the
> | >server cannot, without mind-reading, know what you want without accessing
> | >the server with that url. your choices then become, loading all the
> server
> | >data onto the client for it to trudge through, or getting the appropriate
> | >data from the server using the url.
> |
> | Well maybe if it was plain HTML/CSS/javascript you would have a point,
> | but I'm talking about a FLASH FILE, which is like a browser in and of
> | itself and certainly DOES NOT require direct alterations to the URL in
> | order to load child SWF files within itself. The Flash file is setup
> | to check the URL for any get variables and to act on them if there
> | are, but it most certainly IS NOT dependant upon it for ITS OWN
> | NAVIGATION.
>
> retard. are you saying you load flash with the world or that, yes, afterall,
> i do have to go back to the server to get data for flash? as far as
> html/css/javascript and flash, you can client-side navigate all day long. i
> don't see why you think flash is superior in some aspect because it can do
> the same. hell, throw ajax in the mix and there's no outstanding difference
> between flash and std. html server requests. duh.

Well, Hatter is kind of trying to emulate what HTML does in Flash,
which is a bit pointless. I don't think his site is engineered at all;
All this stuff he's doing is kinda... backwards. Using URLs to modify
the content in *this* way is a bit weird; I can understand what he's
trying to achieve, but I don't think that Flash is mature enough when
it comes to searchengine accessibility for it to give him the results
he wants without a lot of pointless pain.

Rather than trying to get his Flash site to be indexable in this way,
he should provide all of the content via HTML (which is indexable) and
let Flash do Fancy display things for users who have Flash installed.
One lump of content (XML), displayed via HTML or Flash. Rather than
trying to get Flash to be HTML, which it's clearly not. Bookmarking is
a bit of a bugbear with Flash, but he's barking up the wrong tree
anyway IMO.

> | >| Noticing a trend here, Retard? Eventually even the technologically
> | >| retarded get forced to catch up with the rest of us. And again, the
> | >| site has a plain text fall back version regardless, so your whining is
> | >| very much a moot point.
> |
> | No counter argument, huh?
>
> none needed. you obviously think you are changing the world by forcing flash
> on people. try and make money with your site. suddenly 8% (nice that you
> include the 1.5 months of 2k7, lol) becomes important to you. but you go
> ahead, develop your site...no one is noticing.

Flash penetration dropped a little over the last three months - Vista
(I think) does not ship with a Flash player (unlike earlier versions
of Windows), forcing people with new computers to download Flash by
hand. But the overall trend is a growing number of Flash enabled
users, with Flash enabled browsers.

Having said all of that... Flash is pretty much THE most important web
technology right now, and will grow exponentially over the coming
year. Mainly because of Video, broadcast and other multimedia
technologies it provides to the desktop. If you ignore it, you may
wind up playing catch up while everyone else has moved on. Don't be to
quick to write Flash off.

| Well, Hatter is kind of trying to emulate what HTML does in Flash,
| which is a bit pointless. I don't think his site is engineered at all;
| All this stuff he's doing is kinda... backwards. Using URLs to modify
| the content in *this* way is a bit weird; I can understand what he's
| trying to achieve, but I don't think that Flash is mature enough when
| it comes to searchengine accessibility for it to give him the results
| he wants without a lot of pointless pain.
|
| Rather than trying to get his Flash site to be indexable in this way,
| he should provide all of the content via HTML (which is indexable) and
| let Flash do Fancy display things for users who have Flash installed.
| One lump of content (XML), displayed via HTML or Flash. Rather than
| trying to get Flash to be HTML, which it's clearly not. Bookmarking is
| a bit of a bugbear with Flash, but he's barking up the wrong tree
| anyway IMO.

as i have been saying, he is the biggest cause of his own problems. it's not
the fault of any technology he is using - which he quite contrarily
maintains. it is the way in which he uses any given technology. he clearly
has no depth of understanding of any he employs...that includes flash -
which he boasts about being some kind of wizard. he also apparently has no
plan of attack based on such understandings of any OSI layer...that, or he
cannot plan accordingly.


| Flash penetration dropped a little over the last three months - Vista
| (I think) does not ship with a Flash player (unlike earlier versions
| of Windows), forcing people with new computers to download Flash by
| hand. But the overall trend is a growing number of Flash enabled
| users, with Flash enabled browsers.
|
| Having said all of that... Flash is pretty much THE most important web
| technology right now, and will grow exponentially over the coming
| year. Mainly because of Video, broadcast and other multimedia
| technologies it provides to the desktop. If you ignore it, you may
| wind up playing catch up while everyone else has moved on. Don't be to
| quick to write Flash off.

don't confuse 'the most important' with 'the most popular'. THE MOST
important developing web technology is STILL XML.

as far as my utilizing it, i don't rule anything out. my point was to his
over-reliance on it and with very limited fallback for 'customers' that
don't have flash.

as for me 'playing catch up', i program in six different languages
professionally and have done so since the 80's. i am confident i can learn
any language. what's more important is to know high-level what can/can't be
done with a technology. that will help you decide (objectively) whether or
not to employ it. 'playing catch up' is EXACTLY what should be done. either
you will be jumping into a more formalized and stable platform, or it will
have gone by the way-side. getting in 'early' is not a very pragmatic
approach at all for a number of reasons in this context.

what i don't get with OMH is why he is using flash for graphics generation.
i can see providing it, but not creating it. oh well, OdickHeadeous Mad
Hatter is the boggler of his own mind...i will not try to rationally account
for 'reasonings' of a lunatic.

cheers

On 28 Feb 2007 07:59:24 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
<nothespacegirlspam [at] subhuman.net> wrote:

>I did tell you this who parameter passing way of indexing was a bad
>idea :) Now you're starting to see some of the reasons why! You could
>do all of this with NO reloading if you wanted. Get away from passing
>querystring params, it's just a headache IME :*(

....um...how do you propose it be done without reloading? Aside from
the obvious (creating your own custom bookmark button).

Do some javascript embedded in Flash like nyah:

:bookmarkurl="http://www.myurl.com"
:bookmarktitle="My Url"
:if (document.all)
:window.external.AddFavorite(bookmarkurl,bookmarktitle)

That'd work...except if they try to bookmark it themselves...mmm...not
gonna work so good. *shrugs*

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On 28 Feb 2007 08:15:23 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
<nothespacegirlspam [at] subhuman.net> wrote:

>Well, Hatter is kind of trying to emulate what HTML does in Flash,
>which is a bit pointless.

Well no, it's entire pointFULL actually. I mean take my blog site:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog/

Hell, it its current form I can't even link to specific entries! o_O

Indexing...kind of an important thing...unless you want to rely on a
hybrid mix of HTML and Flash...which personally I just find all too
deficient on the whole.

>I don't think his site is engineered at all;
>All this stuff he's doing is kinda... backwards. Using URLs to modify
>the content in *this* way is a bit weird; I can understand what he's
>trying to achieve, but I don't think that Flash is mature enough when
>it comes to searchengine accessibility for it to give him the results
>he wants without a lot of pointless pain.

Well it's not really about search engines so much as it is for user
convenience if they want to bookmark a SPECIFIC section (who wants to
have to dig back through a site just to find a particular
page/section).

>Rather than trying to get his Flash site to be indexable in this way,
>he should provide all of the content via HTML (which is indexable) and
>let Flash do Fancy display things for users who have Flash installed.
>One lump of content (XML), displayed via HTML or Flash. Rather than
>trying to get Flash to be HTML, which it's clearly not.

You're right, Flash is VASTLY superior to HTML...especially for text
content. The use of custom embedded fonts, proper font anti-aliasing,
TRUE liquid sizable text...why on earth you would still be using
something as backwards as HTML for text rendering is beyond
me...there's simply no need. Oh and before some stupid doorknob gets
extra special ed and pops off at the mouth, you're wrong, you CAN
select and copy text in a Flash file.

>Bookmarking is a bit of a bugbear with Flash,

....not really, my form works fine...it's a lil awkward on presentation
or portfolio sites, but for a small, near instant loading Flash
file...oh it'd be work awesome, you probably wouldn't even realize you
were using a pure Flash site (if it was made correctly). For example,
take my blog again, the entire site size is only 100 kilobytes.

>Flash penetration dropped a little over the last three months - Vista
>(I think) does not ship with a Flash player (unlike earlier versions
>of Windows), forcing people with new computers to download Flash by
>hand. But the overall trend is a growing number of Flash enabled
>users, with Flash enabled browsers.

....why do people keep molesting that? Didn't they fix the whole Flash
in Vista snafu like...a month ago? *rolls eyes*

>Having said all of that... Flash is pretty much THE most important web
>technology right now, and will grow exponentially over the coming
>year. Mainly because of Video, broadcast and other multimedia
>technologies it provides to the desktop. If you ignore it, you may
>wind up playing catch up while everyone else has moved on. Don't be to
>quick to write Flash off.

No, no, be quick to write it off, Flash sucks, really, don't use it.
(best to keep the competition low if ya know what I mean) ^_^

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:43:45 -0600, "Steve" <no.one [at] example.com>
wrote:

>as i have been saying, he is the biggest cause of his own problems.

I don't have problems, only solutions.

>it's not
>the fault of any technology he is using - which he quite contrarily
>maintains.

Which you have yet to prove otherwise, Mouth.

>it is the way in which he uses any given technology. he clearly
>has no depth of understanding of any he employs...that includes flash -

Oh yes, I clearly have no depth of understanding...you know, except
for all those bleeding edge Flash sites I keep churning out:
http://www.backwater-productions.net/RMXP_CSG/

Boy, reality sure is a bitch for you, innt Stevie?

>don't confuse 'the most important' with 'the most popular'. THE MOST
>important developing web technology is STILL XML.

....uh, XML isn't even REMOTELY the most important web technology...in
fact it's pretty much the LEAST important since all it is, is a poor
mans database. It's basically like...a database for dummies. ^_^

>as for me 'playing catch up', i program in six different languages
>professionally and have done so since the 80's.

Stevie is probably referring to like Basic, Cobol, Fortran, Pascal,
DOS batch scripting and Prolog. LOL

>i am confident i can learn
>any language.

....um, why would you need to "learn" a language, I mean, fucking
hello, that's what reference manuals are for. Geez, what kind of a
doorknob would actually take the stupidity to commit an entire
programming languages syntax to memory?! o_O

If you tried to do that, by the time you actually had it all
down...the language would be obsolete and you wouldn't even be able to
make use of it.

>'playing catch up' is EXACTLY what should be done.

No, it REALLY shouldn't...well unless you want to be an UNPRODUCING
fuckwit like yourself maybe. There's a reason you have a vast poverty
of work to show for your knowledge, Stevie...try and guess why.

>what i don't get with OMH is why he is using flash for graphics generation.

DUH! Hello, McFly, I'm actually using a COMBINATION of Flash and
PHP...and actually I would be doing the whole thing in Flash if it
were possible, server resources are a bitch when it comes to high
level PHP (image creation and manipulation):
http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Scraps/Server_ Resources.png

And a gawd damn stupid retard like YOU would be trying to do it all in
PHP...Jesus fuck all do you get any more special ed.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On Mar 5, 1:11 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> On 28 Feb 2007 07:59:24 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>
> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
> >I did tell you this who parameter passing way of indexing was a bad
> >idea :) Now you're starting to see some of the reasons why! You could
> >do all of this with NO reloading if you wanted. Get away from passing
> >querystring params, it's just a headache IME :*(
>
> ...um...how do you propose it be done without reloading? Aside from
> the obvious (creating your own custom bookmark button).
>
> Do some javascript embedded in Flash like nyah:
>
> :bookmarkurl="http://www.myurl.com"
> :bookmarktitle="My Url"
> :if (document.all)
> :window.external.AddFavorite(bookmarkurl,bookmarktitle)
>
> That'd work...except if they try to bookmark it themselves...mmm...not
> gonna work so good. *shrugs*

Don't think that works in FireFox or IE7 (breaches the security
model). I've not tried so I maybe wrong.

I'm not sure HOW I'd do it personally - I'm not sure I'd try; if you
have a full-page Flash program, bookmarking is pretty much out of the
question. What you COULD do is provide your own bookmarking mechanism
inside your Flash movie (the user can click a button inside the movie,
which populates an MC with reusable bookmarks inside the Flash movie
itself). You can then use a cookie to identify a returning user. I
think that's how I'd do it. Another trick we've used here is using
folders to id content. / = the main site (Flash) /gallery = gallery,
but actually passes back to the main Flash which then internally loads
the gallery MC /contacts ... etc. You get the idea. This means when
firing out mailers we can say: "visit http://www.<somedomain>.com/gallery/
for the latest updates!" or something; pseudo-bookmarking if you like.

On Mar 5, 1:36 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:43:45 -0600, "Steve" <no.... [at] example.com>
> wrote:
>
> >as i have been saying, he is the biggest cause of his own problems.
>
> I don't have problems, only solutions.
>
> >it's not
> >the fault of any technology he is using - which he quite contrarily
> >maintains.
>
> Which you have yet to prove otherwise, Mouth.
>
> >it is the way in which he uses any given technology. he clearly
> >has no depth of understanding of any he employs...that includes flash -
>
> Oh yes, I clearly have no depth of understanding...you know, except
> for all those bleeding edge Flash sites I keep churning out:http://www.backwater-productions.net/RMXP_CSG/
>
> Boy, reality sure is a bitch for you, innt Stevie?
>
> >don't confuse 'the most important' with 'the most popular'. THE MOST
> >important developing web technology is STILL XML.
>
> ...uh, XML isn't even REMOTELY the most important web technology...in
> fact it's pretty much the LEAST important since all it is, is a poor
> mans database. It's basically like...a database for dummies. ^_^

I'm afraid Steve is right. You really SHOULD spend some time working
with XML and you'll soon see why. Pretty much everything is XML based
now -- all your Office documents, from 2003, the Windows Vista UI,
almost all commercial web sites, pretty much everything in .NET and
Java is stuck together in XML, most cellphones, RSS, News Tickers on
TV... all use XML. Everything I'm doing in Flash is XML based. It
takes a fraction of the time to load and can describe complex data in
a really simple manner.

If you're not using XML, I assume you're not using Web Services
either, which means you're stuffed if you ever want to do structured
application design over the Internet.


> >as for me 'playing catch up', i program in six different languages
> >professionally and have done so since the 80's.
>
> Stevie is probably referring to like Basic, Cobol, Fortran, Pascal,
> DOS batch scripting and Prolog. LOL

C#, Java, AS3 - all XML "based" languages.

On Mar 5, 1:36 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:43:45 -0600, "Steve" <no.... [at] example.com>
> wrote:
>
> >as i have been saying, he is the biggest cause of his own problems.
>
> I don't have problems, only solutions.
>
> >it's not
> >the fault of any technology he is using - which he quite contrarily
> >maintains.
>
> Which you have yet to prove otherwise, Mouth.
>
> >it is the way in which he uses any given technology. he clearly
> >has no depth of understanding of any he employs...that includes flash -
>
> Oh yes, I clearly have no depth of understanding...you know, except
> for all those bleeding edge Flash sites I keep churning out:http://www.backwater-productions.net/RMXP_CSG/
>
> Boy, reality sure is a bitch for you, innt Stevie?
>
> >don't confuse 'the most important' with 'the most popular'. THE MOST
> >important developing web technology is STILL XML.
>
> ...uh, XML isn't even REMOTELY the most important web technology...in
> fact it's pretty much the LEAST important since all it is, is a poor
> mans database. It's basically like...a database for dummies. ^_^

Here we go, ultra simple XML example:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="yes" ?>
<zones>
<zone>
<movie title="fanzone">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="two">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="three">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="news">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="welcome">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="six">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="gallery">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="seven">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
<zone>
<movie title="eight">zone1.swf</movie>
</zone>
</zones>

And here's the code that generates some Flash stuff based on it (AS2,
chopped code from a movie so may not run in this form):

var titles_xml:XML = new XML();
titles_xml.ignoreWhite = true;
var titleFromXML:String;
var clipName:String;
var urlFromXML:String;

titles_xml.onLoad = function(sucess) {
if (sucess) {
XML_titles(titles_xml);
} else {
trace("Couldn't load XML");
}
}

function XML_titles(xml_data) {
for (i in xml_data.firstChild.childNodes) {
titleFromXML =
xml_data.firstChild.childNodes[i].firstChild.attributes.titl e;
urlFromXML =
xml_data.firstChild.childNodes[i].firstChild.firstChild.node Value;
titleName = "title" + i + "_mc";
clipName = "clip" + i + "_mc";
titleName_alt = "title_alt" + i + "_mc";
slider_mc.attachMovie("moviePrototype_mc", clipName,
slider_mc.getNextHighestDepth());
slider_mc[titleName_alt].title_txt.text = titleFromXML;
slider_mc[titleName].title_txt.text = titleFromXML;
}
}

titles_xml.load("somedata.asp");

Try doing that without XML... it'd require MUCH more code. With the
code I have above, I barely have to modify anything if the XML
changes. It generates x number of clips, titles them etc from a single
XML document (which in turn can be a dynamic page that populates the
XML from a database). With a single tweak I can change the code from
using XML (from a URL) to use a Web Service. It would be a nightmare
trying to do this through para passing.

Okay your turn... post how to do this without XML, and less code,
that's easier to follow. Bet you can't :)

| Try doing that without XML... it'd require MUCH more code. With the
| code I have above, I barely have to modify anything if the XML
| changes. It generates x number of clips, titles them etc from a single
| XML document (which in turn can be a dynamic page that populates the
| XML from a database). With a single tweak I can change the code from
| using XML (from a URL) to use a Web Service. It would be a nightmare
| trying to do this through para passing.
|
| Okay your turn... post how to do this without XML, and less code,
| that's easier to follow. Bet you can't :)

he can't do it *with* xml. i shudder to think of what heaps of spaghetti his
code resembles. ;^)

but hey, if he thinks flash is powering the majority of technology, let him
stay in the dark. as for the rest of us who are professional
developers...we'll work with the tools best suited for a job - and that
means knowing what all is out there and which is most appropriately applied
to a given situation.

| >it is the way in which he uses any given technology. he clearly
| >has no depth of understanding of any he employs...that includes flash -
|
| Oh yes, I clearly have no depth of understanding...you know, except
| for all those bleeding edge Flash sites I keep churning out:
| http://www.backwater-productions.net/RMXP_CSG/
|
| Boy, reality sure is a bitch for you, innt Stevie?

that's 'bleeding edge'? if reality is a bitch for me, then how much more out
of your grasp is it for you...given your reality of 'bleeding edge'. lol.

| >don't confuse 'the most important' with 'the most popular'. THE MOST
| >important developing web technology is STILL XML.
|
| ...uh, XML isn't even REMOTELY the most important web technology...in
| fact it's pretty much the LEAST important since all it is, is a poor
| mans database. It's basically like...a database for dummies. ^_^

ur funny. you just put an exlamation point on your own stupidity. you
obviously have no idea what, nor how xml is used and how extensively as
well.

| >as for me 'playing catch up', i program in six different languages
| >professionally and have done so since the 80's.
|
| Stevie is probably referring to like Basic, Cobol, Fortran, Pascal,
| DOS batch scripting and Prolog. LOL

c, c++, c#, tcl/tk, plc, .net, php...and yes, cobol and fortran - and
there's nothing wrong with either.

| >i am confident i can learn
| >any language.
|
| ...um, why would you need to "learn" a language, I mean, fucking
| hello, that's what reference manuals are for. Geez, what kind of a
| doorknob would actually take the stupidity to commit an entire
| programming languages syntax to memory?! o_O

you're a goof. you obviously an not a quick study nor do you have an
aptitude for language. none are strikingly different than the next. learn
one, and subsequent languages become more easily learned.

oh, and the reason a person would 'learn' something is so that one can
master its application.

| If you tried to do that, by the time you actually had it all
| down...the language would be obsolete and you wouldn't even be able to
| make use of it.

only if you are projecting again. the REST of us can 'learn' a new language
in less than three weeks. funny how you've been programming flash for much
longer yet have very little to show for it. perhaps because you are so
against 'learning'.

| >'playing catch up' is EXACTLY what should be done.
|
| No, it REALLY shouldn't...well unless you want to be an UNPRODUCING
| fuckwit like yourself maybe. There's a reason you have a vast poverty
| of work to show for your knowledge, Stevie...try and guess why.

well, you can talk to bmw, toyota, porche, carfax, lockheed-martin, bell
helicopter, bnsf, and a host of others whom all enjoy and have profitted
from my 'poverty of work'. or, you could just come and check out my houses,
cars, and my boat. payday is great!

;^)

On 8 Mar 2007 04:30:36 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
<nothespacegirlspam [at] subhuman.net> wrote:

>Here we go, ultra simple XML example:
<snip>

Your code is hard to read like that...why not make it like this:

:<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" standalone="yes" ?>
:<zones>
: <zone>
: <movie title="fanzone">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="two">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="three">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="news">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="welcome">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="six">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="gallery">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="seven">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
: <zone>
: <movie title="eight">zone1.swf</movie>
: </zone>
:</zones>

:var titles_xml:XML = new XML();
:titles_xml.ignoreWhite = true;
:var titleFromXML:String;
:var clipName:String;
:var urlFromXML:String;
:
:titles_xml.onLoad = function(sucess)
:{
: if (sucess) { XML_titles(titles_xml);}
: else { trace("Couldn't load XML"); }
:}
:
:function XML_titles(xml_data)
:{
: for (i in xml_data.firstChild.childNodes)
: {
: titleFromXML = xml_data.firstChild.childNodes[i].firstChild.attributes.titl e;
: urlFromXML = xml_data.firstChild.childNodes[i].firstChild.firstChild.node Value;
: titleName = "title" + i + "_mc";
: clipName = "clip" + i + "_mc";
: titleName_alt = "title_alt" + i + "_mc";
: slider_mc.attachMovie("moviePrototype_mc", clipName, slider_mc.getNextHighestDepth());
: slider_mc[titleName_alt].title_txt.text = titleFromXML;
: slider_mc[titleName].title_txt.text = titleFromXML;
: }
:}
:
:titles_xml.load("somedata.asp");

Much easier to read, much cleaner.

>Try doing that without XML... it'd require MUCH more code. With the
>code I have above, I barely have to modify anything if the XML
>changes. It generates x number of clips, titles them etc from a single
>XML document (which in turn can be a dynamic page that populates the
>XML from a database).

....which would be absolutely fuckin retarded since um, why bother with
the XML bullshit at all? I mean, if the shit is already *IN* the
database...have it get the st00f DIRECTLY from the database.
Essentially all you've done is create a rather deficient middle man.

>With a single tweak I can change the code from
>using XML (from a URL) to use a Web Service. It would be a nightmare
>trying to do this through para passing.

....how would it be a nightmare? Just use PHP and have it directly
access a database and retrieve the data directly thus bypassing the
need for any XML. Like I said, XML is just a poor mans database.
Anything you're doing with XML I can do the same, directly, with a SQL
database. That's why XML isn't really all that important overall. It
can be handy in Flash in that you can write XML files directly without
having to go through a PHP file to write data into a database...but
the bottom line is that there are EQUIVALENT solutions that can
achieve the same ends (extra code or not) and because of that, it's
not of "life or death" importance. With something like Flash...well
shit, if there was no Flash, half the gawd damn content would just be
fucking GONE because THERE IS NO equivalent. The closest you can get
is Java...and even it comes up short as far as video playback
capabilities amongst other things. The most IMPORTANT web technology
is the one that HAS NO REPLACEMENT. There's replacements for PHP,
there's replacements for XML, there's replacements for pretty much
everything...EXCEPT for Flash.

>Okay your turn... post how to do this without XML, and less code,
>that's easier to follow. Bet you can't :)1

Sure I can, take whatever code you said was taking entries from a
database to create that XML page and just modify it so that it'll send
that data directly to the Flash st00f. Your trying to imply that:

Flash -> PHP -> SQL Database -> XML -> Flash

is somehow faster than:

Flash -> PHP -> SQL Database -> Flash

It's not and your way would actually take MORE code and overall would
actually be SLOWER. *shrugs*

The only real advantage that XML has is in creating kind of disposable
databases in order to cut down on the processor consumption that comes
from accessing/searching/sorting through a SQL database. Essentially
you can have Flash just pick up the XML file and let Flash do the
accessing/searching/sorting client side rather than server side...the
DISADVANTAGE to that however is that you wouldn't be getting "real
time" data. Well, you could, but if you had it setup that way you
wouldn't NEED the XML at all, it'd just be consuming more resources.
In some situations with EXTREME server load it might make sense to
have a server side app that will create a new XML file every few
seconds, that way it's like the database is only being continuously
accessed by a single person rather than being continuously accessed by
dozens all at the same time.

Again though, if the technology was history and simply ceased to be
you could STILL achieve the same ends (slower and more resource heavy
or not) which is why it's not the MOST important.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On Mar 9, 4:26 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2007 04:30:36 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>
> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
> >Here we go, ultra simple XML example:
>
> <snip>
>
> Your code is hard to read like that...why not make it like this:
>

Because GG sucks, and it dropped my tabs when I cut and pasted.
<snip>

> >Try doing that without XML... it'd require MUCH more code. With the
> >code I have above, I barely have to modify anything if the XML
> >changes. It generates x number of clips, titles them etc from a single
> >XML document (which in turn can be a dynamic page that populates the
> >XML from a database).
>
> ...which would be absolutely fuckin retarded since um, why bother with
> the XML bullshit at all? I mean, if the shit is already *IN* the
> database...have it get the st00f DIRECTLY from the database.
> Essentially all you've done is create a rather deficient middle man.

And what format would you use to fetch it from the database? Raw text?
Most databases spit out their data in XML if you ask them. There is a
reason for this.

If I wanted a recordset of say, 100 items, I can make a SINGLE call to
the database and request all 100 items as an XML formatted lump. If I
were to do it *directly*, I would have to make 100 calls to the
database. Better still, once I have an XML snapshot of the data I
want, I can resort the data or perform queries INSIDE the XML. I need
never go back to the database ever again. Massive reduction in
overhead, much faster.

> >With a single tweak I can change the code from
> >using XML (from a URL) to use a Web Service. It would be a nightmare
> >trying to do this through para passing.
>
> ...how would it be a nightmare? Just use PHP and have it directly
> access a database and retrieve the data directly thus bypassing the
> need for any XML. Like I said, XML is just a poor mans database.

Directly. You keep using that word. What format would your data be in?

> Anything you're doing with XML I can do the same, directly, with a SQL
> database. That's why XML isn't really all that important overall. It
> can be handy in Flash in that you can write XML files directly without
> having to go through a PHP file to write data into a database...but
> the bottom line is that there are EQUIVALENT solutions that can
> achieve the same ends (extra code or not) and because of that, it's
> not of "life or death" importance. With something like Flash...well
> shit, if there was no Flash, half the gawd damn content would just be
> fucking GONE because THERE IS NO equivalent. The closest you can get
> is Java...and even it comes up short as far as video playback
> capabilities amongst other things. The most IMPORTANT web technology
> is the one that HAS NO REPLACEMENT. There's replacements for PHP,
> there's replacements for XML, there's replacements for pretty much
> everything...EXCEPT for Flash.
>
> >Okay your turn... post how to do this without XML, and less code,
> >that's easier to follow. Bet you can't :)1
>
> Sure I can, take whatever code you said was taking entries from a
> database to create that XML page and just modify it so that it'll send
> that data directly to the Flash st00f. Your trying to imply that:
>
> Flash -> PHP -> SQL Database -> XML -> Flash
>
> is somehow faster than:
>
> Flash -> PHP -> SQL Database -> Flash

It is. Vastly faster. Take it a step further; Say you have 10,000
records. I want to temporarily change the order of those records.
You're only allowed ONE database call to fetch the data. Now tell me
how to resort the data?

> It's not and your way would actually take MORE code and overall would
> actually be SLOWER. *shrugs*

Well, I'm not going to be dragged into a fight with you over this - I
think you have some great ideas and I think you're missing a trick
here. The kind of stuff we're doing here right NOW you could not TOUCH
without XML.

> The only real advantage that XML has is in creating kind of disposable
> databases in order to cut down on the processor consumption that comes
> from accessing/searching/sorting through a SQL database. Essentially
> you can have Flash just pick up the XML file and let Flash do the
> accessing/searching/sorting client side rather than server side...the
> DISADVANTAGE to that however is that you wouldn't be getting "real
> time" data.

This is very true; XML is fab for taking snapshots of data and
injecting data into lists, trees, tables - that sort of thing. Because
you are dealing with a snapshot you always have to check that your
data is fresh (if you are going to write it back to the DB, for
example), but effectively you'd have to do this using any other method
of getting data too.

> Well, you could, but if you had it setup that way you
> wouldn't NEED the XML at all, it'd just be consuming more resources.

Depends on the data. We have a system here that lets you edit users,
in Flash. It lists the users from the database (XML) and I can then
click and edit any user etc. It works well; the data is fairly static,
but it does validate that no changes have been made in the database
before writing back. The entire process can be done in TWO http
requests (3 if you include loading the actual SWF), plus one database
query to write, and one query to read. We have countless thousands of
users. If we were to do it the way you suggest, we'd have countless
thousands of DB requests, HTTP request, and you'd have to write your
own clever way to parse it all. If alternatively, you're suggesting
you simply spit the data out as text via PHP; you're effectively doing
what XML does anyway, just in an unstructured way.

Have you ever heard of "views"? In MySQL (and probably other
databases) it's a way to create a temporary "in memory" table, based
on a snapshot of data from other tables. This is done at the server.
If you like, XML can be used kinda like that, except that it takes
place in the client (Flash, or whatever has read your XML).

> In some situations with EXTREME server load it might make sense to
> have a server side app that will create a new XML file every few
> seconds, that way it's like the database is only being continuously
> accessed by a single person rather than being continuously accessed by
> dozens all at the same time.
>
> Again though, if the technology was history and simply ceased to be
> you could STILL achieve the same ends (slower and more resource heavy
> or not) which is why it's not the MOST important.

XML is a core part of; Windows Vista, Microsoft Office, OS X, Flash
AS3, Apache, IIS, etc etc... need a go on? These systems would not
exist in the form we see them today without XML, because XML provides
a way to structure data inside them. You're a Flash user; are you
writing off Flex/AS3? Because the core of Flash9/Flex/AS3 is something
called MXML... and guess what THAT is?

It's fine for you to stick with AS2 and Flash 8, but I prefer to work
with Flex/Flash9 and AS3, using XML to describe data structure and
pass data around. You really SHOULD spend some time playing with it; I
promise you, while it may seem a little weird at first, it is
extremely powerful. Even for small recordsets, where XML probably adds
overhead, it massively simplifies the code you have to write and
maintains your data in a format that 1000s of programs can understand
(rather than a flat file only your program understands). It's worth a
look into.

On Mar 8, 9:17 pm, "Steve" <no.... [at] example.com> wrote:

> well, you can talk to bmw, toyota, porche, carfax, lockheed-martin, bell
> helicopter, bnsf, and a host of others whom all enjoy and have profitted
> from my 'poverty of work'. or, you could just come and check out my houses,
> cars, and my boat. payday is great!
>
> ;^)

:) Yeah he does a lot of moaning and has nothing to show. My freelance
Flash clients include, Yell, Warner, Universal Music, PIAS, WoS,
InterScope, Geffen, AXA... Oddly enough, all of whom I have repeat
business with and all of the projects use Flash, XML, video &
interaction. Weird that :D

On Mar 9, 4:26 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2007 04:30:36 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>
> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
> >Here we go, ultra simple XML example:
>
> <snip>
>
> Your code is hard to read like that...why not make it like this:
>
> :var titles_xml:XML = new XML();
> :titles_xml.ignoreWhite = true;
> :var titleFromXML:String;
> :var clipName:String;
> :var urlFromXML:String;
> :
> :titles_xml.onLoad = function(sucess)
> :{
> : if (sucess) { XML_titles(titles_xml);}
> : else { trace("Couldn't load XML"); }
> :}


BTW, the standard bracketing for ECMAScript / AS2 / AS3 is

if (something){
//do this
}

-not-

if (something)
{
// do something
}

Either way compiles though :D

On 9 Mar 2007 02:17:41 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
<nothespacegirlspam [at] subhuman.net> wrote:

>On Mar 9, 4:26 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
>productions.net> wrote:
>> On 8 Mar 2007 04:30:36 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>>
>> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
>> >Here we go, ultra simple XML example:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Your code is hard to read like that...why not make it like this:
>>
>> :var titles_xml:XML = new XML();
>> :titles_xml.ignoreWhite = true;
>> :var titleFromXML:String;
>> :var clipName:String;
>> :var urlFromXML:String;
>> :
>> :titles_xml.onLoad = function(sucess)
>> :{
>> : if (sucess) { XML_titles(titles_xml);}
>> : else { trace("Couldn't load XML"); }
>> :}
>
>
>BTW, the standard bracketing for ECMAScript / AS2 / AS3 is
>
>if (something){
> //do this
>}
>
>-not-
>
>if (something)
>{
> // do something
>}
>
>Either way compiles though :D

My way is easier to read therefore superior. Sorry if I think a lil
too far out of the box for you, I know it can be a little scary.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On 9 Mar 2007 01:56:32 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
<nothespacegirlspam [at] subhuman.net> wrote:

>> ...which would be absolutely fuckin retarded since um, why bother with
>> the XML bullshit at all? I mean, if the shit is already *IN* the
>> database...have it get the st00f DIRECTLY from the database.
>> Essentially all you've done is create a rather deficient middle man.

>And what format would you use to fetch it from the database? Raw text?
>Most databases spit out their data in XML if you ask them. There is a
>rea<giant snip>

I think I understand the problem...for some reason you think XML is
like...something concrete, something that can actually be definable in
some unique, unchanging way.

Here, watch this:

-hooha:
-entry1:
-name:Farfoos:
-phone:555-5555:
:
-entry2:
-name:Blah:
-phone:333-3333:
:
-entry3:
-name:Huh:
-phone:222-2222:
:
:

Woah, complicated huh? Free cl00, I just reinvented XML. Here,
watch, I'll do it again:

:hooha>
:entry1>
:name>Farfoos<name
:phone>555-5555<phone
<entry1:
:entry2>
:name>Blah<name:
-phone:333-3333:
<entry2:
:entry3>
:name>Huh<name:
-phone:222-2222:
<entry3:
<hooha:

XML isn't REALLY anything, I mean you're yammering the fuck on about
it like it's some incredibly complex uber dependant one of a kind
unfuckwithable form that we all couldn't live without.

Essentially XML is like a cheap cardboard box...yes, we need boxes to
put stuff in and things wouldn't work so well without them...but it's
a fuckin box fer Christ sake, ANYONE can make a fuckin box. Just
cause you give yer box a fancy name and a lot of techno babble doesn't
change the fact that IT IS JUST A FUCKIN BOX. o_O

....tha fuck.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )

On Mar 9, 11:55 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> On 9 Mar 2007 02:17:41 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>
>
>
> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
> >On Mar 9, 4:26 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
> >productions.net> wrote:
> >> On 8 Mar 2007 04:30:36 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>
> >> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
> >> >Here we go, ultra simple XML example:
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >> Your code is hard to read like that...why not make it like this:
>
> >> :var titles_xml:XML = new XML();
> >> :titles_xml.ignoreWhite = true;
> >> :var titleFromXML:String;
> >> :var clipName:String;
> >> :var urlFromXML:String;
> >> :
> >> :titles_xml.onLoad = function(sucess)
> >> :{
> >> : if (sucess) { XML_titles(titles_xml);}
> >> : else { trace("Couldn't load XML"); }
> >> :}
>
> >BTW, the standard bracketing for ECMAScript / AS2 / AS3 is
>
> >if (something){
> > //do this
> >}
>
> >-not-
>
> >if (something)
> >{
> > // do something
> >}
>
> >Either way compiles though :D
>
> My way is easier to read therefore superior. Sorry if I think a lil
> too far out of the box for you, I know it can be a little scary.

Heheh. Very old, long argument. I'm not sure why the standard for AS
is "my way", I generally find your way easier to read too. There is a
lot to be said for not following standards blindly :)

On Mar 9, 11:55 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
productions.net> wrote:
> On 9 Mar 2007 02:17:41 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>
>
>
> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
> >On Mar 9, 4:26 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
> >productions.net> wrote:
> >> On 8 Mar 2007 04:30:36 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>
> >> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
> >> >Here we go, ultra simple XML example:
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >> Your code is hard to read like that...why not make it like this:
>
> >> :var titles_xml:XML = new XML();
> >> :titles_xml.ignoreWhite = true;
> >> :var titleFromXML:String;
> >> :var clipName:String;
> >> :var urlFromXML:String;
> >> :
> >> :titles_xml.onLoad = function(sucess)
> >> :{
> >> : if (sucess) { XML_titles(titles_xml);}
> >> : else { trace("Couldn't load XML"); }
> >> :}
>
> >BTW, the standard bracketing for ECMAScript / AS2 / AS3 is
>
> >if (something){
> > //do this
> >}
>
> >-not-
>
> >if (something)
> >{
> > // do something
> >}
>
> >Either way compiles though :D
>
> My way is easier to read therefore superior. Sorry if I think a lil
> too far out of the box for you, I know it can be a little scary.

Hang on, does that mean, BTW... XML is easier to read, so superior? :D

On 9 Mar 2007 04:17:54 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
<nothespacegirlspam [at] subhuman.net> wrote:

>On Mar 9, 11:55 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
>productions.net> wrote:
>> On 9 Mar 2007 02:17:41 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>>
>>
>>
>> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
>> >On Mar 9, 4:26 am, Onideus Mad Hatter <use... [at] backwater-
>> >productions.net> wrote:
>> >> On 8 Mar 2007 04:30:36 -0800, "SpaceGirl"
>>
>> >> <nothespacegirls... [at] subhuman.net> wrote:
>> >> >Here we go, ultra simple XML example:
>>
>> >> <snip>
>>
>> >> Your code is hard to read like that...why not make it like this:
>>
>> >> :var titles_xml:XML = new XML();
>> >> :titles_xml.ignoreWhite = true;
>> >> :var titleFromXML:String;
>> >> :var clipName:String;
>> >> :var urlFromXML:String;
>> >> :
>> >> :titles_xml.onLoad = function(sucess)
>> >> :{
>> >> : if (sucess) { XML_titles(titles_xml);}
>> >> : else { trace("Couldn't load XML"); }
>> >> :}
>>
>> >BTW, the standard bracketing for ECMAScript / AS2 / AS3 is
>>
>> >if (something){
>> > //do this
>> >}
>>
>> >-not-
>>
>> >if (something)
>> >{
>> > // do something
>> >}
>>
>> >Either way compiles though :D
>>
>> My way is easier to read therefore superior. Sorry if I think a lil
>> too far out of the box for you, I know it can be a little scary.
>
>Heheh. Very old, long argument. I'm not sure why the standard for AS
>is "my way", I generally find your way easier to read too. There is a
>lot to be said for not following standards blindly :)

Especially when the "standards" are either meaningless or in the case
of the W3C, incompatible.

Every person I've ever brought it up with has always found my coding
form easier to read...even by people with little to no programming
experience.

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net
http://www.backwater-productions.net/hatter-blog


Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."

"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."

"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."

"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."

"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"

"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."

"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."

"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."

"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"

"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."

"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."

"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."

"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."

"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."

"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."

"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."

"Those who record history are those who control history."

"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."

"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."

"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"

"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."

"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )