Somebody is scanning your computer ...

Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 19:12:14 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 19:15:24 von andromeda

aiyo... no trust microsoft meh?

^_^



"Tx2" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c609c5d497d9282989fb5@news.individual.net...
>
> Just had this message pop-up from my Sygate Personal Firewall when I
> accessed Hotmail after clicking a link to email someone from within MSN
> Messenger.
>
> Somebody is scanning your computer.
> Your computer's UDP ports:
> 1904, 2006, 2027, and 2122 have been scanned from 64.4.12.201..
>
> I tried the same thing again, but no warning occurred.
>
>
> WHOIS shows MS Hotmail
> Why would Hotmail be scanning those ports?
>
> Bearing in mind I am behind a Draytek 2600 NAT router, and running a
> software firewall, I am intrigued to say the least.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 19:15:24 von andromeda

aiyo... no trust microsoft meh?

^_^



"Tx2" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c609c5d497d9282989fb5@news.individual.net...
>
> Just had this message pop-up from my Sygate Personal Firewall when I
> accessed Hotmail after clicking a link to email someone from within MSN
> Messenger.
>
> Somebody is scanning your computer.
> Your computer's UDP ports:
> 1904, 2006, 2027, and 2122 have been scanned from 64.4.12.201..
>
> I tried the same thing again, but no warning occurred.
>
>
> WHOIS shows MS Hotmail
> Why would Hotmail be scanning those ports?
>
> Bearing in mind I am behind a Draytek 2600 NAT router, and running a
> software firewall, I am intrigued to say the least.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 19:55:33 von Wolfgang Kueter

Tx2 wrote:

> Just had this message pop-up from my Sygate Personal Firewall when I
> accessed Hotmail after clicking a link to email someone from within MSN
> Messenger.
>
> Somebody is scanning your computer.

Complete nonsense.

> Your computer's UDP ports:
> 1904, 2006, 2027, and 2122 have been scanned from 64.4.12.201..

Answer packets from:

wolfgang@arthur-dent:~> host 64.4.12.201
201.12.4.64.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer echo-v2.msgr.hotmail.com.

> Why would Hotmail be scanning those ports?

They are not, it is just your firewall placebo, that is a bit confused,
nothing more. So please ask the vendor of that totally braindead firewall
simulation why their piece of software crap is not only totally useless but
also misinterprets udp answer packets as an atatck.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 19:55:33 von Wolfgang Kueter

Tx2 wrote:

> Just had this message pop-up from my Sygate Personal Firewall when I
> accessed Hotmail after clicking a link to email someone from within MSN
> Messenger.
>
> Somebody is scanning your computer.

Complete nonsense.

> Your computer's UDP ports:
> 1904, 2006, 2027, and 2122 have been scanned from 64.4.12.201..

Answer packets from:

wolfgang@arthur-dent:~> host 64.4.12.201
201.12.4.64.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer echo-v2.msgr.hotmail.com.

> Why would Hotmail be scanning those ports?

They are not, it is just your firewall placebo, that is a bit confused,
nothing more. So please ask the vendor of that totally braindead firewall
simulation why their piece of software crap is not only totally useless but
also misinterprets udp answer packets as an atatck.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 20:38:47 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 20:38:57 von unknown

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:55:33 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>> Why would Hotmail be scanning those ports?
>
>They are not, it is just your firewall placebo, that is a bit confused,
>nothing more. So please ask the vendor of that totally braindead firewall
>simulation why their piece of software crap is not only totally useless but
>also misinterprets udp answer packets as an atatck.
>
>Wolfgang

Wolfgang -

I appreciate your communication style. Thank you.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 20:41:22 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 20:45:23 von Wolfgang Kueter

Tx2 wrote:


> XP Pro, SP2.

No third party software is neccessary. Services should be disabled, strict
user rights should be set, insecure software like IE should not be used.

> DSL access via Draytek 2600 router.

The packet filter of the draytek routers is not that bad.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 20:49:27 von Wolfgang Kueter

------ Which Way? ------ wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^

How does the officer on the border or airport look, when he reads that name
in your passport?

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 21:01:05 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 21:18:13 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 21:36:44 von unknown

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:49:27 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>------ Which Way? ------ wrote:
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>
>How does the officer on the border or airport look, when he reads that name
>in your passport?
>
>Wolfgang

I tell them it is a rather poor English translation of my real name.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 22:27:28 von Wolfgang Kueter

Tx2 wrote:

> So a 'second line of defence', so to speak, is pointless?

No, it is definitely a good thing to have more than one line of defense, but
the firewall simulation you are running is no such second line of defense.
OK, if you call a simple wooden fence about 2 feet high with the door left
wide open a line of defense, live with it, I don't.

> I have to say, aside from the little 'performance' by Sygate this
> afternoon, I never get any inbound warnings.

Fine, sit back and relax.

> However, what about outgoing protection?

Firewall placebos like Zonealarm, Sygate, Norton etc. don't give protection
from that. Once malware is installed, it can do at least anything that the
user who is running the malware can. Therefore the mentioned tools are
useless. Especially if you are logged in with administrator rights, the
mentioned tools totally useless.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 25.01.2005 23:37:54 von Jarmo P

>
>
> Firewall placebos like Zonealarm, Sygate, Norton etc. don't give protection
> from that. Once malware is installed, it can do at least anything that the
> user who is running the malware can. Therefore the mentioned tools are
> useless. Especially if you are logged in with administrator rights, the
> mentioned tools totally useless.
>
> Wolfgang

Sygate has a nice traffic log, that also logs the connections that
really happen, not just the blocked ones as some other firewalls only do.
I rather have what you call a placebo than XP SP2's dummy.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 00:10:54 von doubter

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:27:28 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>> However, what about outgoing protection?
>
>Firewall placebos like Zonealarm, Sygate, Norton etc. don't give protection
>from that. Once malware is installed, it can do at least anything that the
>user who is running the malware can. Therefore the mentioned tools are
>useless. Especially if you are logged in with administrator rights, the
>mentioned tools totally useless.

The above paragraph proves you don't have any idea what you are talking
about. ZoneAlarm is very effective at stopping outgoing traffic.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 01:56:04 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 08:18:14 von Wolfgang Kueter

Leythos wrote:

> WG does know what he's talking about - and you've got to learn the
> difference between a perfectly installed PFW on a pristine systems and
> one where the users have no clue and permit anything that is requested.

There is hardly any diffrence.

> A PFW is only as good as the user that manages is - which means most of
> the PFW's are not much good to many.

All PFWs are useless crap.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 09:16:37 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 09:19:58 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 13:45:48 von Eirik Seim

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:19:58 -0000, Tx2 wrote:
> In article , wolfgang@shconnect.de, a.k.a
> Wolfgang Kueter says...

[snip]

> > All PFWs are useless crap.

[snip]

> At the very least, contribute something positive by way of suggesting
> alternatives to the "crap" you have such a low opinion of.

And he has, a number of times.

http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=personal+firewalls+au thor%3Awolfgang%40shconnect.de+group%3Acomp.security.firewal ls
(http://tinyurl.com/6gg8n)

--
New and exciting signature!

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 13:47:33 von Wolfgang Kueter

Tx2 wrote:

> Sorry, but all I've read so far is your opinion, and nothing that
> quantifies it. Are you an educated expert? A security specialist? A
> hacker?

Make up your mind yourself, ask google, search groups.google.com. I've
posted articles to usenet for about a decade.

> At the very least, contribute something positive by way of suggesting
> alternatives to the "crap" you have such a low opinion of.

You don't need any of the mentioned tools. Switch all unwanted services off,
install patches ASAP, do not use insecure software, do not use sofwtare
from suspect sources, log in with administrator rights only for system
administration tasks, keep code base on the box small.

That will do.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 26.01.2005 14:09:37 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 00:22:17 von David Smith

"Leythos" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c6074752616a3a498a015@news-

> In areas where I don't have a firewall appliance I at least have a NAT
> router (like yours) and I monitor the traffic in/out at the router in
> real-time. This, more than anything else, tells me what is going OUT of
> my network and where it's going.

Hi Lethos,

What program do you use for thi monitoring?

Thanks....

David S>

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 12:37:53 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 23:18:40 von Wolfgang Kueter

doubter wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:27:28 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
> wrote:
>
>>> However, what about outgoing protection?
>>
>>Firewall placebos like Zonealarm, Sygate, Norton etc. don't give
>>protection from that. Once malware is installed, it can do at least
>>anything that the user who is running the malware can. Therefore the
>>mentioned tools are useless. Especially if you are logged in with
>>administrator rights, the mentioned tools totally useless.
>
> The above paragraph proves you don't have any idea what you are talking
> about.

I'm pretty sure I have.

> ZoneAlarm is very effective at stopping outgoing traffic.

How do you know? Have you studied the sourcecode? Have you studied the
source code of the operating system this software is claiming to make more
secure? Could you please proove your claims with references to the source
of both?!

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 23:31:33 von doubter

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:18:40 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>doubter wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:27:28 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> However, what about outgoing protection?
>>>
>>>Firewall placebos like Zonealarm, Sygate, Norton etc. don't give
>>>protection from that. Once malware is installed, it can do at least
>>>anything that the user who is running the malware can. Therefore the
>>>mentioned tools are useless. Especially if you are logged in with
>>>administrator rights, the mentioned tools totally useless.
>>
>> The above paragraph proves you don't have any idea what you are talking
>> about.
>
>I'm pretty sure I have.

"I think, therefore I am"

>
>> ZoneAlarm is very effective at stopping outgoing traffic.
>
>How do you know? Have you studied the sourcecode? Have you studied the
>source code of the operating system this software is claiming to make more
>secure?

As much as you have.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 23:32:34 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 23:36:38 von David Smith

"Leythos" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c629d868849b8a298a029@news->>
>> What program do you use for thi monitoring?
>
> For routers with NAT, Linksys ones in particular, I use WallWatcher -
> it's free - google for WallWatcher Download.
>

Hi Again,

Thanks. I downloaded it but cannot seem to hook into the router logs after
enabling them in router setup. I am using a Linksys WRT 54 G (firmware
v3.01.3). (Dell 5150, Win XP sp2)

In router setup I don't see a way to use "send to" for the logs as
described in WW help.


Thanks for any help....

Davi dS>

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 23:45:55 von Wolfgang Kueter

doubter wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:18:40 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
> wrote:

>> [Read Source Code]
> As much as you have

A few examples. I hope that you are able to understand them:

http://www.dingens.org/breakout.c
http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/wwwsh.tar.bz2
http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/kerio-autoklick.c
http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/norton-autoklick.c

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 27.01.2005 23:47:46 von Wolfgang Kueter

Tx2 wrote:

> In article , wolfgang@shconnect.de, a.k.a
> Wolfgang Kueter says...
>
>> doubter wrote:
>
>> > The above paragraph proves you don't have any idea what you are talking
>> > about.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I have.
>
> Why are you pretty sure?

Because of stuff like:

http://www.dingens.org/breakout.c
http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/wwwsh.tar.bz2
http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/kerio-autoklick.c
http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/norton-autoklick.c

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 01:09:33 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 01:31:04 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 02:12:27 von doubter

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:45:55 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>doubter wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:18:40 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
>> wrote:
>
>>> [Read Source Code]
>> As much as you have
>
>A few examples. I hope that you are able to understand them:
>
>http://www.dingens.org/breakout.c
>http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/wwwsh.tar.bz2
>http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/kerio-autoklick.c
>http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/norton-autoklick.c
>
>Wolfgang

A message oft repeated doesn't gain veracity by virtue of the repetitions.
The only thing evident from your posts is your ego.

As your post illustrates you are more interested in mental masturbation
than you are in sharing real information. Perhaps you have something of
value to contribute, but it is well hidden. And that Wolfgang, is your
fault, not the fault of the reader.

It appears you may have information that is of value to the readers of this
newsgroup. It's too bad you choose not to share that data in a credible,
meaningful manner.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 14:03:33 von Wolfgang Kueter

doubter wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:45:55 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter

> As your post illustrates you are more interested in mental masturbation
> than you are in sharing real information. Perhaps you have something of
> value to contribute, but it is well hidden. And that Wolfgang, is your
> fault, not the fault of the reader.

It is the fault of the reader to believe what is written on the package of
some obsure software product instead of trying to understand programming.

> It appears you may have information that is of value to the readers of
> this
> newsgroup. It's too bad you choose not to share that data in a credible,
> meaningful manner.

It is your problem, that you lack technical knowledge to discuss security
related issues or understand (by reading the PoC expolit source code!) what
what I say. I cannot do more than post links to code that show the
fundamental design problems of personal firewalls. The mentioned code
prooves you wrong. If you don't understand the code, well, read some books
about (system) programming and come back in about 5 years.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 14:17:44 von Wolfgang Kueter

Tx2 wrote:

> In article , wolfgang@shconnect.de, a.k.a
> Wolfgang Kueter says...
> > Why are you pretty sure?
>>
>> Because of stuff like:
>>
>> http://www.dingens.org/breakout.c
>> http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/wwwsh.tar.bz2
>> http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/kerio-autoklick.c
>> http://copton.net/vortraege/pfw/norton-autoklick.c
>
> Well, i have no idea what that is ... could be total junk, AFAIC.

Take lessons in system programming especially the C and C++ programming
languages, come back in about 5 years.

> Further highlighting your intolerance of communicating to those less
> well informed than yourself ...

I'm really fed up with people like you who have all their 'knowledge' about
security from reading what is written on the shiny package of some piece of
software. Do you also believe everything you see in TV-commercials?

> "Why are you telling me how a lightbulb works, when all i was asking is
> what it was for?"

I told you that personal firewalls are not for security because they all
suffer from severe disign problems.

Well, OK, I'll try to stick to ypur lightbulb example: To understand how a
lightbulb functions you have to know something about:

- electrical resistance
- electricity in general
- melting points of metals
- light emission at high tempatures
- various other science related stuff

With that knowledge you will be able to tell for sure that a lightbulb with
a wire made from plastic will never produce light, because plastic is an
isolator. Without the knowledge you might be tricked by a manufacturer who
produces lightbulbs with plastic wire inside and buy dozens of these just
to be disappointed afterwards because you are still sitting in the dark.

Maybe this example might enlighten you. ;-)

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 14:30:13 von Arthur Hagen

Wolfgang Kueter wrote:
>
> With that knowledge you will be able to tell for sure that a
> lightbulb with a wire made from plastic will never produce light,
> because plastic is an isolator.

You're wrong again. There *are* conductive plastics.

A little knowledge is dangerous. And you have a little knowledge, and
flaunt it.

--
*Art

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 15:13:17 von Wolfgang Kueter

Arthur Hagen wrote:


> You're wrong again. There *are* conductive plastics.

You are nitpicking.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 15:30:29 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 15:31:42 von unknown

Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 18:38:33 von doubter

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:17:39 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>Tx2 wrote:
>
>> I'm the end user ... I want to use the product, but if someone tells me
>> I shouldn't, I would like to know why, [...]
>
>But I told you why. I showed you code that compromises these tools in a way
>so that they are no longer able to do, what they are designed to do.
>
>Therefore I say they are useless. I cannot do anything about the fact, that
>you lack the neccessary knowledge (programming skills) to understand, what
>mailicious code can do to fool those tools.
>
>Wolfgang
>

What an elitist ass. Only programers can understand security problems?
That will be true if we continue to have programmers totally incapable of
existing in the real world. In case you haven't figured it out, most users
of computers are not technical and have no desire to become technical. Nor
should they have a need to do so. The onus is on the technical literate to
educate the non technical in terms they can understand.

I have managed programmers who were absolutely unable to communicate what
they were doing or how they were doing it without relying on technical
jargon. I have managed other programmers who were excellent at being able
to translate technical concepts into terms non technical people could
understand and follow. Guess which group tended to be the better
programmers? (I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the group the lived solely
in their own little world.) It seems those that new how to communicate
with the users were also better at understanding the users requirements. I
wonder why that was?

Usenet is for the exchange of information, something you seemed to have
overlooked. The mantra "learn programming and come back in five years" is
absurd. It speaks to your inability to communicate *concepts* in an
understandable way. That's okay Wolfgang, I understand there are people
who don't have good communcation skills. Maybe they should go back to
school for five years and return here when they are capable of
understanding the difference between writing c code and explaining what it
does.

Wolfgang, I believe you have information that would be useful to us.
However posting links to source code does little to help us understand the
issues.

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 28.01.2005 20:41:33 von Bern

Not everyone is programmer or has the time to read books aboput or learn
source codes...
Most people are normal users, won't you say?
Or is internet only for those who knows how to read sourcecode?


"Wolfgang Kueter" wrote in message
news:ctdd73$qgk$1@news.shlink.de...
> doubter wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 23:45:55 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
>
>> As your post illustrates you are more interested in mental masturbation
>> than you are in sharing real information. Perhaps you have something of
>> value to contribute, but it is well hidden. And that Wolfgang, is your
>> fault, not the fault of the reader.
>
> It is the fault of the reader to believe what is written on the package of
> some obsure software product instead of trying to understand programming.
>
>> It appears you may have information that is of value to the readers of
>> this
>> newsgroup. It's too bad you choose not to share that data in a credible,
>> meaningful manner.
>
> It is your problem, that you lack technical knowledge to discuss security
> related issues or understand (by reading the PoC expolit source code!)
> what
> what I say. I cannot do more than post links to code that show the
> fundamental design problems of personal firewalls. The mentioned code
> prooves you wrong. If you don't understand the code, well, read some books
> about (system) programming and come back in about 5 years.
>
> Wolfgang
>
>

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 00:56:46 von Wolfgang Kueter

Kurt wrote:

> Not everyone is programmer or has the time to read books aboput or learn
> source codes...

No problem. Therefore these people are not qualified to talk seriously about
security issues.

> Most people are normal users, won't you say?

OK.

> Or is internet only for those who knows how to read sourcecode?

No, but computer security has definitely a lot do do with very technical
stuff. Those who don't understand even the basics of programming should
better keep quiet about security.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 01:10:27 von Wolfgang Kueter

doubter wrote:


> Wolfgang, I believe you have information that would be useful to us.

I gave you information and you were not able to understand it because you
lack the knowledge of esential basics.

Technical grouzps like this one are _not_ the kindergarden, where small
children are taught the basics in maths like counting. It can be expected
that those who come here already know how to solve dirrential equations or
at least are aware that for certain problems the ability to solve such
equations is required.

> However posting links to source code does little to help us understand the
> issues.

Several expolits exist, that proove the tools useless. Use your favourite
search engine, read security related material (books, securityfocus.com,
bugtraq etc.). I do that every day.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 01:14:42 von Wolfgang Kueter

doubter wrote:

> Wolfgang, I believe you have information that would be useful to us.

I gave you information and you were not able to understand it because you
lack the knowledge of some very essential basics.

Technical groups like this one are not the usenet kindergarden, where small
children are taught the basics in maths like counting. It can be expected
that the people who come here already know how to solve differential
equations or at least are aware that for certain problems the ability to
solve such equations is required.  

> However posting links to source code does little to help us understand the
> issues.

Several exploits exist, that proove the tools useless. Use your favourite
search engine, read security related material (books, securityfocus.com,
bugtraq etc.). I do that every day.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 01:16:58 von doubter

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:56:46 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>Kurt wrote:
>
>> Not everyone is programmer or has the time to read books aboput or learn
>> source codes...
>
>No problem. Therefore these people are not qualified to talk seriously about
>security issues.
>
>> Most people are normal users, won't you say?
>
>OK.
>
>> Or is internet only for those who knows how to read sourcecode?
>
>No, but computer security has definitely a lot do do with very technical
>stuff. Those who don't understand even the basics of programming should
>better keep quiet about security.
>
>Wolfgang

Jeeze wolfgang, you really are an elitist. Someone who doesn't know
programming should not ask questions about security??? But I see from
looking at your posts in other forums this isn't a new attitude for you.
You response to go away and come back after you have read a book is common.
Too bad you can't cope in the real word where non programmers have both
computers and security concerns.

I suggest if you can't communicate with the vast majority of computer
users, it is you that should go away. You don't seem interested in sharing
anything of value anyway, so why do you post here?

How the hell do you cope when you are away from your computer?

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 01:36:54 von Eirik Seim

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:38:33 GMT, doubter wrote:

> [...] In case you haven't figured it out, most users
> of computers are not technical and have no desire to become technical. Nor
> should they have a need to do so. The onus is on the technical literate to
> educate the non technical in terms they can understand.

"Windows 98, 98 and Me are useless. And even with NT/XP malicious
programs can do anything you can do, including change settings and
click any button in any window."

There.

--
New and exciting signature!

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 01:46:06 von Wolfgang Kueter

doubter wrote:


> Jeeze wolfgang, you really are an elitist. Someone who doesn't know
> programming should not ask questions about security???

Asking questions is absolutely no problem but unwillingness to accept an (in
this case neccessarily technical) answer, that doesn't fit the expectations
definitely is.

Read the above sentence again and after that maybe think again about _your_
communication skills.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 01:56:00 von Wolfgang Kueter

Eirik Seim wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:38:33 GMT, doubter wrote:
>
>> [...] In case you haven't figured it out, most users
>> of computers are not technical and have no desire to become technical.
>> Nor
>> should they have a need to do so. The onus is on the technical literate
>> to educate the non technical in terms they can understand.
>
> "Windows 98, 98 and Me are useless. And even with NT/XP malicious
> programs can do anything you can do, including change settings and
> click any button in any window."
>
> There.

I'm afraid that was far too technical. And the package of $PRODUCT said,
that the software miracle inside will make my box 100% secure. I don't
believe you.

SCNR

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 12:00:02 von Greg Hennessy

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:56:46 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:


>No, but computer security has definitely a lot do do with very technical
>stuff. Those who don't understand even the basics of programming should
>better keep quiet about security.
>

Utter bollocks.
--
Yeah - straight from the top of my dome
As I rock, rock, rock, rock, rock the microphone

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 13:43:15 von Wolfgang Kueter

Greg Hennessy wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:56:46 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
> wrote:
>
>
>>No, but computer security has definitely a lot do do with very technical
>>stuff. Those who don't understand even the basics of programming should
>>better keep quiet about security.
>>
>
> Utter bollocks.

Well, Ok, so you'll happily let people without the required knowledge
construct bridges, aeroplanes or even a spacecraft. I hope that I never
have to sit in one of those planes when it is more than one meter above the
ground.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 15:17:49 von Greg Hennessy

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:43:15 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
wrote:

>Greg Hennessy wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:56:46 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>No, but computer security has definitely a lot do do with very technical
>>>stuff. Those who don't understand even the basics of programming should
>>>better keep quiet about security.
>>>
>>
>> Utter bollocks.
>
>Well, Ok, so you'll happily let people without the required knowledge
>construct bridges, aeroplanes or even a spacecraft.

Fallacious nonsense.

Please tell the audience how a knowledge of the 'basics of programming'
would facilitate explaining the IT Security ramifications of Sarbannes
Oxley to say a UK based business quoted on Wall Street.

Let alone costing up compliance, detailing the contradictions and overlap
between SOX and the UK DPA and putting a high level project plan together
to meet an immutable deadline.

> I hope that I never
>have to sit in one of those planes when it is more than one meter above the
>ground.

Your inability to qualify the above nonsense is noted.

Professional IT Security knowledge is a mite more than the manipulation of
mere bits and bytes.



greg


--
Yeah - straight from the top of my dome
As I rock, rock, rock, rock, rock the microphone

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 16:00:00 von Arthur Hagen

Wolfgang Kueter wrote:
> Greg Hennessy wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:56:46 +0100, Wolfgang Kueter
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> No, but computer security has definitely a lot do do with very
>>> technical stuff. Those who don't understand even the basics of
>>> programming should better keep quiet about security.
>>>
>>
>> Utter bollocks.
>
> Well, Ok, so you'll happily let people without the required knowledge
> construct bridges, aeroplanes or even a spacecraft.

No, but they're definitely entitled to their opinions on all three, which is
what you want to deny them. Sometimes the pearl of wisdom is found where
you don't expect it.

> I hope that I never have to sit in one of those planes when it is
> more than one meter above the ground.

Yet you're using a computer with a kernel written by someone with *no*
experience or education in that field.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 16:40:54 von Eirik Seim

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:00:00 -0500, Arthur Hagen wrote:
> Wolfgang Kueter wrote:

[snip]

> > I hope that I never have to sit in one of those planes when it is
> > more than one meter above the ground.
>
> Yet you're using a computer with a kernel written by someone with *no*
> experience or education in that field.

How can you tell? Knode only means he is running a KDE program.
The emails I send from my computer says "Kmail", but I'm not
running KDE :)

--
New and exciting signature!

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 17:09:11 von Wolfgang Kueter

Arthur Hagen wrote:

> Yet you're using a computer with a kernel written by someone with *no*
> experience or education in that field.

I'm using more than one computer with that kernel. :)

Seriously: Linus Torvalds was a student of computer science at that time and
at least he knew some C programming. He was indeed inexperienced in writing
code for an operating system when he started and he used minix as an
example for his first steps.

But he was well aware where to get more information and what he had to
learn. He contacted others soon after the first steps which he made on his
own and several people joined in and they worked that out together.

BTW: Microsoft (Gates & Ballmer at that time) was even so inexperienced when
they started DOS that they _bought_ the code from DEC to fulfil the
contract with IBM to deliver the OS for the first IBM PC in time.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 17:14:26 von Wolfgang Kueter

Greg Hennessy wrote:

> [...]
> Professional IT Security knowledge is a mite more than the manipulation of
> mere bits and bytes.

I know. But without bits and bytes the policies definded in papers cannot be
enforced.

Wolfgang

Re: Somebody is scanning your computer ...

am 29.01.2005 22:32:08 von Wolfgang Kueter

Eirik Seim wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:00:00 -0500, Arthur Hagen wrote:

>> Yet you're using a computer with a kernel written by someone with *no*
>> experience or education in that field.
>
> How can you tell?

Now he can. :)

Wolfgang
>